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Pso
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 21, 2009 - 04:43 pm: | 
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Dentguy and Articktm: Where can I find the entire passage you folks are talking about? |
Dentguy
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 21, 2009 - 05:18 pm: |
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It's in the ASK ABE section of Fuell magazine (Fall 2007). There is not much more to it. It also says the right side scoop (when made to match the left) actually hurts fuel rail temps at idle.
(Message edited by dentguy on July 21, 2009) |
Edgydrifter
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 21, 2009 - 06:38 pm: |
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Just got back last night from a mini tour of S. OR. Seven riders in all--six on HDs and me on the Uly. The weather was hot and the riding spirited, so naturally I endured frequent jabs about the fan when we stopped, mostly along the lines of "hey, isn't that burrito done cooking yet?" or "who left the hairdryer on?" They're good guys and all comments were made with a smile, so I took them in stride. Still, a quieter fan would be a welcome aftermarket mod to me and I'd be glad to lay down money for it. |
Idaho_buelly
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 21, 2009 - 09:38 pm: |
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Edgydrifter, where did you ride in south oregon? |
Sayitaintso
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 22, 2009 - 09:30 am: |
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Edgy, You must have really really been taking it easy. You should have arrived where ever you were going so far in front of the HDs that the fan should have shut off by time they arrived. |
Edgydrifter
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 22, 2009 - 11:50 am: |
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Idaho_buelly: Crater Lake, Oregon Caves, Jeddediah Smith State Park (just south of the border in NoCal), and then back up along the coast on 101. I saw exactly ONE other Buell the whole trip--a nice bright orange Uly on the switchbacks at Crater Lake. Lots of Harleys and Beemers, of course, and a surprising number of V-Stroms. I'll post a ride report (with pics!) after I get caught up with the backlog at work.
Sayitaintso: The HD riders I was with have white whiskers on their chins, but they aren't duffers on the road. Most of them were/are also sportbike riders, and they believe in getting from point A to point B with a quickness. That means extralegal speeds on the straights and lots of sparks in the corners. Frankly, it's embarrassing to not be able to keep up with a fat man on an Ultra Glide in the twisties, but some of these guys possess both skills and fearlessness in large enough measure that you just have to tip your hat to them and resolve to hone your own skills for the next group ride. Really hammers home that most of the time it's all about the rider, not the bike. |
Sayitaintso
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 22, 2009 - 01:17 pm: |
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The HD riders I was with have white whiskers on their chins, but they aren't duffers on the road. Most of them were/are also sportbike riders, and they believe in getting from point A to point B with a quickness. That means extralegal speeds on the straights and lots of sparks in the corners. Frankly, it's embarrassing to not be able to keep up with a fat man on an Ultra Glide in the twisties, but some of these guys possess both skills and fearlessness in large enough measure that you just have to tip your hat to them and resolve to hone your own skills for the next group ride. Really hammers home that most of the time it's all about the rider, not the bike.
I've ridden with guys like that and came to the same conclusion. Tip your hat to them and shake your head that they are crazy to try to do things they do on a cruiser.
When on my cruiser sparks are my signal to easy back a little bit. I've heard too many stories of low sides b/c they ran out of clearance.
Back ot.... long live the fanhead. |
Smpl5
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 22, 2009 - 01:43 pm: |
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The fan on my 08 isn't so bad, IMO. That said, the good folks at Cerini Buell/HD reflashed my ECM when it was in for service yesterday (I had the "y" flash done last fall). The main difference I've noticed so far is in the operation of the fan. It seems to come on more than it did before while riding but shuts down sooner after it is turned off. I haven't had enough miles to check out any other differences, though. |
Natexlh1000
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 22, 2009 - 06:04 pm: |
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I was about to chime in on behalf of my 2008 too.
Now that it's broken in, it seems to only come on when I kill the engine.
Perhaps a larger oil cooler would be a good idea for the 2006,2007 people? |
Dust_buster
| | Posted on Thursday, July 23, 2009 - 02:10 am: |
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I think I remember some Uly owners claiming a change to full synthetic oil helped the engine run cooler and the fan run less? |
Smpl5
| | Posted on Thursday, July 23, 2009 - 12:07 pm: |
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I don't recall noticing a difference in the fan operation when I switched to synthetic, though that was over a year ago and ...
What was I typing? Why am I on this website?
Oh yeah, my memory is sometimes faulty. My wife even says so. |
Idaho_buelly
| | Posted on Friday, July 24, 2009 - 12:29 am: |
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Edgydrifter,
Sounds like an awesome ride,looking forward to your ride report!...Thanks} |
Cyclonedon
| | Posted on Friday, July 24, 2009 - 01:17 am: |
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this year while riding to the Buell homecoming, I was riding with Bienhobob (Bob Clement) who was also riding a 2006 Ulysses like mine except his had a right side scoop, when we shut off our motors at the factory at the same time, both our fans continued to run and again they both shut off at exactly the same time also! So we both noticed that there wasn't any difference in the right side air scoop.
About the fan, it does what it's suppose to do, cool down the top part of the engine when it gets hot.
My only complaint about the fan is why does it run when your riding 70+ mph down the highway? That can't be actually pulling anymore air across the heads that what is already there with the highway speeds. |
Supertoon
| | Posted on Friday, July 24, 2009 - 07:24 am: |
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I often wonder if the fan just stayed on all the time at an even slower third speed. If it really is just to cool the fuel rail this might be enough..... |
Hughlysses
| | Posted on Friday, July 24, 2009 - 07:42 am: |
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Cooling the fuel rails may be a major reason for the fan, but when the XB first came out, Buell definitely said the main reason for the fan was to prevent the oil from "coking" in the rear rocker cover area, especially after the bike is shut off. This is a big problem on turbos, which led to the development of water-jacketed turbos back in the 1980's. As long as the engine is running, everything is fine. Fresh oil gets pumped up through the area and drains back to the crankcase keeping everything within the oil's temperature limits. After the engine is shut off though, the oil sits there and gets cooked, boiling off all the lighter fractions. Eventually this gunk builds up, blocks oil passages, coats the top of the cylinder head, etc. causing big problems.
I think you're going to HAVE to have the fan as long as the rear head is stuffed back up in an enclosed space like that.
OTOH I'm sure it would be possible to engineer a quieter fan. A larger, slower turning fan seems to me to be the most logical way to address it. They might have to change the frame layout, or duct the air back behind the shock and mount the fan horizontally under the seat (that would allow you to mount a ~12" diameter fan). |
Rwven
| | Posted on Friday, July 24, 2009 - 07:50 am: |
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I don't know if I'm imagining this, but it seems that when the fan is running there is a lot less heat on my right leg. Not that I let the heat bother me anyway...just an observation. |
Chas1969
| | Posted on Friday, July 24, 2009 - 07:59 am: |
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the fan runs either if uly is ridden slow or fast. the slow running makes sence but why at highway speeds at times fan runs all the time.
with speed I think the engine hits a thermal threshold with heat production that even going 70+ mph airflow can not keep up with in cooling capacity. the enclosed rear cylinder at these high speed situations I think is getting lots of cool air into engine area but the problem is getting hot air out. hence the fan running all the time going fast.
just part of design and all is okay but at first when buying the bike it was not logical to have fan run going down the highway LOL. I aways thought the fan running turning off the bike and slow parade speed was logical.
Chad
(Message edited by chas1969 on July 24, 2009) |
Tginnh
| | Posted on Friday, July 24, 2009 - 08:02 am: |
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Hughlysses - great explanation.
Couple of questions:
Water jacketed turbos? Is that an "intercooler?"
If coking of the oil in the rear rocker box after engine shut off is the issue, is better drainage a viable alternative to the fan?
Or, is it simply mechanically impossible to "drain" the oil from the rocker box when the engine is turned off? |
Hughlysses
| | Posted on Friday, July 24, 2009 - 08:05 am: |
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Rwven- that is absolutely true. The hot air under pressure from the left side scoop "leaks" out from the frame opening above the rear cylinder head and blows onto your right thigh. When the fan kicks on, it basically pulls a vacuum in this area so the hot air gets pulled out the fan opening and no longer blows onto your thigh.
Several of us have helped this issue by either closing off the opening in the frame above the rear cylinder head with Thermotec or aluminum HVAC tape, or sealing the edge of the seat with a piece of weather stripping. Easy fix, and it makes a big difference in the heat on your leg before the fan kicks on. |
Rwven
| | Posted on Friday, July 24, 2009 - 08:06 am: |
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The intercooler cools the intake air charge coming off the turbo. Usually this is an air to air intercooler.
A water jacketed turbo is just that, it has a water jacket that keeps the bearings from overheating. Turbo's are prone to bearing failure from oil coking in the bearings after shutdown. |
Rwven
| | Posted on Friday, July 24, 2009 - 08:13 am: |
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Hughlysses,
I have a Treadmark's/Odie's heat blanket which cuts down the heat a bit. When it gets hot I just hang my right leg out a few inches and keep on riding...
On the highway the fan comes on a lot more when riding in heavy traffic, even at relatively high speeds (80ish). The draft from the moving vehicles cuts down the air velocity at the scoop I assume. The upside is I get 50mpgs at 75-80 in heavy traffic. |
Hughlysses
| | Posted on Friday, July 24, 2009 - 08:16 am: |
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Tginnh- No, an intercooler is heat exchanger located in the air that is blown out of the turbo into the engine's intake manifold. The compressing process in the turbo heats up the air and the intercooler helps remove this heat, cooling the air and making it cooler and denser before it's fed to the engine to increase horsepower.
Around 1980 they started putting water jackets around the center of turbos (where the bearing is located). The jacket is usually plumbed into the engine's cooling system such that natural circulation will continue to occur after the engine is shut off to keep the bearing relatively cool until the turbo starts to cool down. Before this, oil would coke around that bearing (especially if you shut the engine off immediately after a long, hard run). It would eventually plug up the drain pipe back to the engine's oil pan, and blow out the seals in the turbo or restrict oil flow into the turbo. Bad news.
Another way some engines dealt with this was to have a separate, electrically powered oil pump. It was set up on a timer, and was usually arranged so it would come on before you started the engine (so the turbo would be pre-lubed) and it would continue to run after the engine was shut off so the oil flow would cool the turbo down. They still use this setup on some BIG turbos like the ones on General Motors locomotives.
Come to think of it, that might be a viable option for the Buell engine. A small oil pump that runs only when the engine is shut off might be a lot quieter than that fan. |
Hughlysses
| | Posted on Friday, July 24, 2009 - 08:20 am: |
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Rwven- the area I'm talking about is in front of the area where Odie's regular heat blankets go. You actually have to remove the airbox cover to see most of it. Closing off that opening makes a big difference in the hot air blowing on your leg when the fan is not running.
OTOH it does nothing about the right frame rail getting hot; moving your leg is the easiest fix for that. |
Tginnh
| | Posted on Friday, July 24, 2009 - 08:29 am: |
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Got it. Thanks to you both for the detailed explanations.
btw - I have posted a couple times in recent weeks regarding the DEI wrap I put on my bike after installing Odie's blanket.
I found that the blanket helped a lot, but I wanted a greater reduction in heat.
The addition of the pipe wrap is proving to be an excellent combo for me. Plus, it doesn't look half bad. |
Dr_greg
| | Posted on Friday, July 24, 2009 - 02:57 pm: |
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quote:...Buell definitely said the main reason for the fan was to prevent the oil from "coking" in the rear rocker cover area, especially after the bike is shut off...
Well, when I had the heads off my 1st '06 at 55K miles to do the spark plug thread repair, there was no evidence of "coking" at all. Both heads looked the same; very clean up top.
So I guess I'll resign myself to the fan...sigh.
--Doc |
Ourdee
| | Posted on Friday, July 24, 2009 - 03:13 pm: |
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fanhead |
Dr_greg
| | Posted on Sunday, July 26, 2009 - 08:19 pm: |
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Maybe for not much longer... |
Cyclonedon
| | Posted on Monday, July 27, 2009 - 12:47 am: |
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Doc, are you thinking about trading your Uly? |
Keith_mahoney
| | Posted on Monday, July 27, 2009 - 02:26 am: |
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Maybe all Buell riders should just move someplace colder. My fan has only come on one time while the bike was running and that was with only a couple hundred miles on it.
I just got back yesterday from a week in the Alps. I traveled to and from Belgium 2 up and loaded with a weeks worth of "necessities" hitting speeds up to 110 mph on the autobahn on the way back. The bike got hot enough that the pipes changed color a couple more inches down the tubes and I finally felt some heat through the seat but the fan never came on.
P.S. I still love this bike |
Hughlysses
| | Posted on Monday, July 27, 2009 - 05:25 am: |
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Doc, Buell seems to have listened to your complaints:
http://www.buell.com/en_us/gear/accessories/produc t.asp?Menu_ID=2&ProductLineID=2&CategoryID=5&Produ ctID=10029
New for 2010 "Rider Comfort Kit". |
Natexlh1000
| | Posted on Monday, July 27, 2009 - 10:12 am: |
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I really think they revamped the whole engine management setup a lot more than they let on for the 2008 bikes.
My fan never comes on if I'm driving.
I can hit the highway at 75 in temps above 85F and it doesn't care.
It only gets pingy if I'm running 89 octane. |
Jphish
| | Posted on Monday, July 27, 2009 - 10:54 am: |
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My 08' fan rarely came on unless at slow speeds in hot weather, or upon shut down. When I got the ECM reflash / update last month the fan runs damn near all the time now (even in 70*F ambient temps) but the fuel mileage increased from about 45mpg to 50+. ?? |
Dr_greg
| | Posted on Monday, July 27, 2009 - 11:40 am: |
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quote:New for 2010 "Rider Comfort Kit".
But looks like it would cover up part of my beautiful blue header!
Seriously, I might think about it except I'll think I'll decline the reflash. My engine runs so well I don't want to change anything.
Oh, regarding the "not for long" comment: yes, my eye was roving but it's come home now.
--Doc |
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