| Author | Message | ||
     Tipsymcstagger |
Let me say right off the bat, I will check all grounds and all wires for shorts and chaffing once I have a chance to take everything apart. That said, here’s the situation. Recently, when I turn the key to the “On” position, the dash backlight does not illuminate, the odometer readout does not appear, the needles do not go through their self test (swing through their arc and back to zero) and the idiot lights do not illuminate. However, the headlight does come on, so I know the bike is getting at least some power when the key is on. I have HID’s installed (low and high) and the ballasts are powered directly from my Centech fuse block, but the relay is powered by the factory Euro light lead, so I know the factory harness (at least the Euro lead and the high beam lead) are powered. The strange part is when I turn the key back to off, the tach and speedo needles cycle (still with no odometer, back lighting, idiots lights, etc). I have to turn the key off and on anywhere from a second time to several times before the dash responds properly. I have a lot rewiring under the fly screen…four power leads coming from the Centech, two HID ballasts, Piaa 510’s, custom made LED turn signal modules, etc. so I’m reluctant to take it to Buell even though it’s still under warranty. For one thing, I’m assuming they’ll just tell me since I’ve modified the stock harness, the warranty is void for electrical issues. And two, I’ve done a lot of rewiring that I really don’t want anyone messing around with. So, does this sound like anything that anyone has heard about or seen before? Tipsy | ||
| Ronmold |
Where are the HID's grounded? Once the dash "wakes up" does it stay working and will the engine start & run properly? | ||
| Tipsymcstagger |
All of the grounds under the flyscreen are routed to the factory location on the steering head. Yes, once it "wakes up," it starts up and runs normally. One thing I haven't attempted to check is whether the starter will engage (and if the bike will run) when the dash is not "woken up." I took this photo just before I started all of the modifications last year. The stock grounding location is visible in the center bottom of the photo. Tipsy  | ||
| 2_spuds |
"I’m assuming they’ll just tell me since I’ve modified the stock harness, the warranty is void for electrical issues. " I had a dealer decline warranty work because I had an led volt monitor hooked up to the acc. circuit. My problem was a broken ground wire in the harness, when ever I turned right the headlight would go out. Good luck finding your problem,hopefully it turns out to be something simple. | ||
| Ronmold |
Now THIS is a strange electrical Gremlin:  I assume you mean the new grounds for the HID's are bolted to the same point as factory. Has this been working in it's present state of farkelization for awhile before starting to malfunction? Relays themselves can make some good voltage spikes from the coils de-energizing, and some HID's make a lot of electrical noise. A possible intermittent instrument cluster connector or ground may be the cause or just a defective cluster and cycling the key may be causing the relays to give enough spike to jump-start the cluster processor. Check those 4 into 1 factory ground wires under the flyscreen for breaks and while in there do the mod I listed under Xbimmer's thread: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/142838/465647.html?1244296850 Keep us informed | ||
| Tipsymcstagger |
Yes, everything that requires a ground is routed to the factory ground point. If I recall correctly, I did something similar to what you're suggesting...I kept a single ring terminal on the steering head and made a heavy lead to which all of the smaller ground wires are connected. I haven't modified anything under the fly screen for about 10K miles, so Id' say yes...it's "been working in it's present state of farkelization for a while." I have to travel soon so I'm not sure when I'll have a chance to tear into it, but I'll keep the thread alive when I have more info. Tipsy | ||
| Sanchez |
I recently had an intermittent electrical problem that would sometimes clear up with a few key cycles. It turned out to be a bad relay. Open the fuse box, pull out each relay in turn, and see if one of them replicates the problem you see with the dash. If so, swap that for your aux relay, and go pick up a new one. At ~$4/ea from the dealership, I just replaced all of mine. | ||
| Tipsymcstagger |
Thanks...I will try that! Tipsy | ||
| Tipsymcstagger |
Well, the plot thickens. First of all, as noted above, the relays are listed at $4 each online. My friendly neighborhood Buell dealership charged me $20 for two. Nice. I walked over to the garage and pulled the fusebox cover. I pulled out each relay one at a time. Each time that I had just one relay removed, the dash would work normally or occasionally respond in the "gremlinish" manner described above. In other words, the removal of no one relay will prevent the dash from receiving power, illuminating, running through self-test, needles, etc. But it did seem that the relay labeled "Key Switch" would click when the dash responded normally but wouldn't click when the gremlin appeared (until I turned the key back to off, causing the needles to cycle and the relay to click). So if this relay doesn't close when the gremlin appears, doesn't it stand to reason that with this relay removed the dash would not receive power? That is not the case. In fact, I was able to duplicate the gremlin with all four relays removed! With all four relays out of the harness, turning the key "on" would result in the dash functioning normally (back lighting, self test, etc) and also the occasional "no response" issue that I'm trying to diagnose. So, in summary, with all four relays removed, the dash will function normally and the gremlin will intermittently appear. But when the dash functions normally, there is a distinct click in the "key switch" relay which is absent when the gremlin appears. I'm thinking now it could be the key/ignition switch itself? But even when the gremlin appears, the switch is allowing headlight power??? Hmmmmmm. Tipsy | ||
| Sleez |
+1 on the switch | ||
| Ronmold |
OK not making sense, what year is your Uly? | ||
| Tipsymcstagger |
>>>>OK not making sense, what year is your Uly?<<<<< 2008. Tipsy | ||
| Rays |
Tipsy, the ignition switch has my vote as well. There are two separate contacts in the ignition switch and when the switch is moved to the 'On' position pin 1 is connected to pin 3 and pin 2 is connected to pin 4 internally in the switch. Power (+12v) is connected to pins 1 & 4 of the ignition switch. By the 'On' connections described above there are effectively 2 power circuits. The connections to pin 3 include all of the main operational items but the connections to pin 2 only include the items that are on when the switch is in the 'Park' position. It looks like you are always getting connection to pin 2 and see your headlight come on because you are using the Euro parking light to power your HID relay set-up. I'm guessing that your taillight also always comes on. The internal connection to pin 3 looks like it is dodgy and sometimes actually making contact as you move the switch back to the 'Off' position giving you the momentary sweep of the instruments. This is the contact that takes some playing around to get it to 'make'. The ignition switch operation can be checked very readily if you can get access to a multimeter - I just did a quick run-through in the garage to show you the steps. Step 1 - remove the front fly-screen to gain access to the 4-pin connector on the ignition switch. With the switch in the 'Off' position disconnect the plug (small plastic bit needs to be depressed). The 4 pins connected to the switch are as shown. When the switch is turned to the 'On' position the 2 pins on the left should be connected together and the 2 pins on the right should be connected.  Step 2. Switch the multimeter to the Ohms range - if it isn't auto-ranging set it to a low range, 1-10 ohms or so. Connect the leads to each pair of pins and measure the resistance - in the photo you can see I have used a couple of female sockets to make it easier for me to hold the plug, the leads and the camera at the same time.  Step 3. This is what you should see - a reading very close to zero indicating that the internal contacts are 'made'. This should be between pins 1 &3 and also between pins 2 & 4. If you can get someone else to hold the multimeter leads firmly you should be able to see the dodgy contacts playing-up.  Of course this may be just another wild theory but it won't take much time to check and won't take you into any warranty-threatening territory. Oh yes, Step 4 is to switch the ignition switch to 'Off' and to re-connect the plug (having it switched off is just being ultra-cautious and comes from having things like that beaten into me by a grumpy sargeant). Please feel free to PM me if I can help further. (Message edited by Rays on June 11, 2009) | ||
| Tipsymcstagger |
Rays...that's fantastic information! Thanks very much! I'm getting ready to walk out the door to go fly for nine days. I'll do these checks as soon as I get back. I'll let you know what I find. Thanks again! Tipsy | ||
| Mad_doctor |
Tipsy, without the click from the relay, this could also mean no ground. each relay has to have 12 volt positive, and ground. while you have the meter handy, also check the ohm reading through the connector to the ground. And by the way Rays, good choice on the fluke meter. I use the model 87, fluke builds one of the best meters on the market. just my .02 | ||
| Xb12lp |
I am having some electrical problems. It started out with me blowing the turn signal fuse when the bars were turned. I would also have the low beam go out with the blinkers. I read about the problem with the wire harness, I uncovered the wire harness and checked for broken, frayed wires. None found so I resealed the harness and made a new harness holder because the harness was th thick to use the stock one. Now the blinkers and low beam do not blow a fuse but the ip cluster gauges do there sweep action when I move the bars, and the trip and clock keep resetting. My question is which wire feeds the cluster memory and sweep function? Any help would be greatly appreciated. thanks | ||
| Rays |
Louis, this earlier thread should answer some of your questions. Pay very close attention to the splices that are covered with glue-filled heat shrink. When the wires are broken inside these they are not obvious to a visual inspection. Once you have them exposed you should be able to manipulate them enough to reproduce intermittent issues such as the back-up power to the instruments. http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/142 838/446370.html#POST1413351 | ||
| J0hn0tt0 |
I have an '06 and am experiencing the same exact thing, Tipsy. I found that if I toggle the key too fast from off to on, this will happen. If it happens, I just turn the key back to off, then turn it back to on, slowly, and all is well. Once or twice the dash would die during a ride, but the bike ran as if nothing happened and the headlights were still on, but I could not activate the blinkers. | ||
| Sleez |
my blinkers recently quit, i traced all the signals to the flasher and the gnd was showing about 12k ohms!!! i ran a dedicated wire from the flasher to the ground on the HL bracket and it works fine. i'll have to trace the wire later to see what the problem is, i suspect a pinched/broken wire in the bundle!! | ||
| Rays |
Sleez, the ground for the blinker relay is one of the four attached to the lower headstock location. I have had all four of these break over time and the horn was difficult to locate because all of the internal strands broke but left the insulation intact. It is possible that this sort of failure could create quite a resistive connection but 12K is getting up there! | ||
| Sleez |
Rays, thanks, i assumed it went to that junction. i guess i'll have to fix it soon. where exactly in the run did it break? at the junction, or somewhere in the middle? (Message edited by sleez on June 11, 2009) | ||
| Tipsymcstagger |
Hey Rays...you were spot-on about the taillight. I had 24 hours off, so I shot home for the day and just took the Uly down to the Ear Inn. When the dash fails to respond, the taillight is indeed powered with the headlight. Will be home again in a few days and will hopefully have a chance to tear into it. Tipsy | ||
| Rays |
Tipsy, I'll give you another clue - when the dash fails to respond I'll wager that the blinkers work (depending on how you wired your LED set-up). How do I know this? I suspect that I have inherited your evil spell and it has manifested itself the other way around given I live upside down on the other side of the earth.  This morning on the way to work (in the dark, quite chilly and really foggy) I discovered that my blinkers weren't working at all so I had a few issues dealing with freeway and city traffic using good old hand signals. My LED voltage indicator was also dead (it is powered from the Aux power connector). As I switched the ignition off in the car park at work I noticed that LED voltage indicator flashed on momentarily. A little fiddling around revealed that if I switched the ignition ON and rotated the key slightly towards the OFF position the LED voltage indicator and the blinkers would work. I did that work-around tonight and came home without any issue. Tonight I have confirmed that the blinker power does come from the Parking contact in the switch. I also confirmed that in the failed position I was also riding without a tail light (just what you need in the dark and in fog). So, it seems we have the same issue but on different internal contacts in the ignition switch. My '06 now has just on 82,000 km (just under 50,000 miles) and given I use it for commuting the ignition switch has been through a couple of thousand operations by now. I will further wager that when I get to look at this this week-end I can take a photo of a contact showing a lot more resistance than 0.1 ohms.........  | ||
| Tipsymcstagger |
I'm a little torn on what to do about this. Assuming the problem we're both experiencing is in fact a failing ignition switch...my bike is still under warranty...but I'm very reluctant to let the dealership mess around under the fly-screen. I have A LOT of custom wiring under there and I seriously doubt they'd put it back together correctly. On the other hand, the ignition switch assembly Y0724.1AD (IGNITION SWITCH WITH KEY) is a bit pricey at $83.20. That also means I'd have a different key for the ignition than the fuel cap and the seat release. If there's a way to order the same key-code, I'm unaware of it. C0290.2AKA ($83.20) is the part number for "Complete Vehicle Lock Set" but considering the price, I'm assuming this is only the key-lock cylinders and does not include the ignition switch assembly. Tipsy | ||
| Raceautobody |
Can't you just get the elect. part of the ignition switch. You don't need the lock part but the end of the switch. I had the same problem with my 08 uly. I took the ignition switch assy out of the bike (you need tamper proof torx) and took the switching end off (the part with the 4 prong plug). It just snaps on to the end of the assy. I then used a very small srewdriver and opened the switch and cleaned the contacts. Reassembled and problem solved. | ||
| Tipsymcstagger |
What problem were you having? I don't know if cleaning the contacts will solve my issue but to answer your question, no...the switch assembly is not available separate from the lock cylinder. There is only one part number listed in my parts manual. Tipsy | ||
| Raceautobody |
Your problem sounds just like mine. Opening up the switch and cleaning the contacts fixed mine. The contact lugs were black from arcing and the grease in the switch was starting to turn black. You are not out anything but your time to try it, or take it in for warranty and let the dealer have your bike for 2 weeks waiting for a switch. Al | ||
| Tipsymcstagger |
Thanks Al...I'll give it a try before I order the part. Tipsy | ||
| Rotorhead |
Well I have the same issue and it's getting worse. Hope it's the switch and I can clean it. $83 and a different key would suck!!! | ||
| Ronmold |
Race, did you do the low beam always on conversion using the euro wire at the headlight connector? Not sure on the '08 but on the '06 it comes off the key-switch contacts. I mentioned in an earlier post that I didn't think that was a good idea as the contacts in the switch were probably designed for a small load. Lights take a good hit when the first turn on, whether HID's or halogen. |
