| Author | Message | ||
     Okc99 |
I just realized that I lugged the engine big time for the first few thousand miles around town. Purposely accelling hard in high gears at low speeds. I didn't know this was "bad". So what is the effect? Anyone else want to confess? | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
If it didn't ping, I would imagine that there would be no damage. | ||
| Tootal |
That's sort of the way I break a new engine in. Start off at 2000 rpm and go to full throttle to about 4000 and then let it coast down and do it again. After a dozen times the rings are seated. By this time your good and broke in IMHO. Now stop it already! (Message edited by tootal on April 27, 2009) | ||
| Choyashi |
My buddy just runs the shit out of all his new bikes, and they are always faster then mine which I try to break in the approved way. (Don't lug and vary speeds) | ||
| Hughlysses |
I wouldn't call it "bad", but those conditions put the most wear on the engine. Large throttle openings at low speed give high cylinder pressures, which push the rings out against the cylinder walls with the most force. The oil pump is turning at the lowest speed so there's less lubrication than there is at high speed. I'd think that limited periods of this are good during break-in, and won't cause problems once the engine's broken in, but if you ride around like this all the time, your rings are going to wear out quicker than an engine that's thrashed at higher RPM on a regular basis. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Lugging the engine will guarantee that the bike gets poor gas mileage and runs hotter. 4000RPMs is the happy spot. Lugging is also harder on the connecting pin and wrist pins. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that both the wrist pin and connecting pin lubrication is provided by a layer of oil to provide the lubrication to the bearing shells. I don't believe that either have actual "bearings". At lower, lugged, speeds, the oil pressure, flow, and lubrication at those connection points is insufficient to provide sufficient lubrication. Add to that the impact force of the higher cylinder pressures and you could wallow out these points of connection causing knocking and eventual rod failure. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
Just do your bike a favour and beat on it from time to time. Mine didn't start feeling normal until I started flogging it a bit. Like taching it out in the first three gears and maintaining 85 on the highway for hours. this weekend, I took it out for its first flogging of the season and it got the best mileage I've ever got on it. three tanks, all over 50 MPG. Feels like it's finally breaking in at 14,000 miles. My X1 felt "normal" like this at 6,000. I guess they make them more tight now. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
They don't call it "the Italian tune-up" for nothing.  You can be too easy on an engine. | ||
| J0hn0tt0 |
So, what's the sweet spot, then? 4000 RPM? I typically cruise at ~3000 RPM and my fan comes on almost every ride, even though I'm doing 60 MPH. I guess it's time for the XB9 swap to keep the RPMs up. (Message edited by j0hn0tt0 on April 27, 2009) (Message edited by j0hn0tt0 on April 27, 2009) | ||
| Froggy |
*cough*BS*cough* I meet the definition of lugger based on these posts, I usually shift around 2000rpm, and only see over 3000 if I am highway cruising in 5th or am beating on it. Result: I have gotten 75MPG before, and my fan shuts off before Johnnylunchboxes, and is about the same as Ulynuts, both their bikes are stock. Then again Ulynut makes me ride it hard, and as result chunks of his tire hit me in the face. | ||
| Osup |
Once I knew I was going to buy my Uly, I flogged the hell out of it on my test ride with 5 miles on the odometer! I changed the oil at 300 miles and at regular intervals since then. I have never babied the thing and I burn absolutely no oil between changes and it runs flawlessly. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
*cough*BS*cough* Contra bullshit call. Prove me wrong. | ||
| Hangetsu |
John, No need for an expensive gear change - just pick the speed up to 80 or drop a gear when putzing around at 60. The RPMs are in your control. | ||
| Pauley2000 |
@ 2500-3000rpm you got plenty torque AND HP to tool about. (rider only) In 4th or 5th I would consider 3000rpm my floor. If you wanna go somewhere fast, may I suggest downshifting before hitting the hammer. (IMHO) -pauley | ||
| Jlnance |
So, what's the sweet spot, then? 4000 RPM? I typically cruise at ~3000 RPM and my fan comes on almost every ride, even though I'm doing 60 MPH. I guess it's time for the XB9 swap to keep the RPMs up. Yes, keep it around 4000 rpm. Many people get better gas mileage this way, some don't. We never figured out exactly what the difference was, though there was speculation that heavier people did better with lower gearing. The XB9 swap is good for giving you a lower first gear, when you're going 10 mph. For the speeds we are talking about here, all you need to do is shift differently. I believe the shift points in the manual were written for the EPA. I almost never use 5th gear. 4th is more fun at highway speeds AND my gas mileage is better. | ||
| Chadhargis |
I'm with Fatty B here. Lugging the Uly engine will not only cause it to get hot and ping badly, but it will cause you to get less mileage. I NEVER use 5th gear unless I'm running about 80mph. If the RPMs drop to near 3000, then you are in too high a gear. Keep the thing spinning above 4000. The only problem with this theory is, you only have about 2800rpm "headroom", meaning you're going to find the rev limiter quite often. I know the Uly has good torque, but to get much go-go out of it, you really have to ride it like a 600. Keep it screaming near redline all the time. Lots of shifting to keep it in that tiny sweet spot Bring on the 1125 engine PLEEEEEEASE!!! | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
Just one more thing to think of here: The 2008 and up have a different brain so the behave differently from previous bikes. My 2008 only pings if I beat on it with 89 octane gas. Also, the fan never comes on if I'm riding it; only if I get stuck in traffic for long. My friend's 2004 xb12s runs its fan from time to time as he's riding it. | ||
| Etennuly |
I usually run mine around 3,000 for cruising around. If I am in hurry up mode where I will be inputting throttle often and or hard, I keep it around 4,000 and up(like when riding with Ft_b and company). On the slabs it is up there anyways. My '06 has been as high as 57 mpg on the BRP at 45 to 55 mph with the RPMs around 2800 to 3200, not lugging it up hills, just smooth cruising. But my bike has been one that does not ping and it runs smoothly at low RPMs. Many Ulys that I have ridden with will not do that. | ||
| Hangetsu |
Ride the Uly like a 600? This man either spends all his time on a race track, is seriously boasting, or he's going to lose his license within the year. My bet is #2. You keep any XB12 near redline an any gear past 2nd and you'll be seeing triple digit speeds at all times. The Uly has plenty of "go go" at any RPM between 3000 and redline - at least on any surface that allows public access. Just ride it normal and unless you're a meathead, you'll never be wanting for more power. Want more power? Go buy a GSXR. But don't expect to blast in the twisties, tour, ride dirt roads, or ride as comfortably two-up and you would solo on most any other bike; all on the same machine. The Uly is a broad spectrum performer and its engine is perfect for what it's meant to do. (Message edited by Hangetsu on April 28, 2009) (Message edited by Hangetsu on April 28, 2009) | ||
| Jlnance |
Also, the fan never comes on if I'm riding it; only if I get stuck in traffic for long. The temp for fan activation is higher on the 08+ bikes. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Ride the Uly like a 600? This man either spends all his time on a race track, is seriously boasting, or he's going to lose his license within the year. My bet is #2. You keep any XB12 near redline an any gear past 2nd and you'll be seeing triple digit speeds at all times. You need to come ride with us some time. If you run in third gear, the magic gear, it isn't hard to keep it between 4,000 and redline. Chad and I did a blister pass on the Cherohala Skyway and virtually never left third. Hitting the rev limiter was not difficult.  | ||
| Tootal |
Come on Chad, let's see your picture too!  I was reading an article on the Buell by some magazine and they stated that the thunderstorm engine had two personalities. You could ride it at low rpm and use it's abundance of torque by short shifting and rolling on the throttle or you can open her up and feel that 5000 rpm hit in every gear, keeping it in that sweet spot. I have to agree completely with that one as I ride both ways depending on my mood, or company!  | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Come on Chad, let's see your picture too!  | ||
| Jlnance |
Chad and I did a blister pass on the Cherohala Skyway and virtually never left third. Hitting the rev limiter was not difficult. I know what speed 3rd gear redlines at.  | ||
| Froggy |
Here is me lugging it in 5th gear the other day   Ft_, I do have the receipt from the gas station. Granted that means nothing, I could easily lie about the numbers on my tripometer. I am going to have to do some testing with Megalog and record 50MPH or something in all 5 gears and compare temps, I am curious to see how the RPM affects everything. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Also keep in mind in your testing to keep it below 70MPH. Above that, resistance queers the numbers. I suggest running 3rd at 4000-4500 vs. 4th at the 2500-3500 range same speed. The best mileage I have ever gotten was with Chad. We both filled up at the same time, reset our mileage, and both were at 170 miles with the light not on. We ran hard twisties at high RPMs at or near the rev limiter. We were not running REALLY high speeds, but we were running "the pace". I think your testing will prove this out as well. Also make sure that you aren't "granny riding". If you accelerate hard in 3rd, do the same in 4th. | ||
| Sayitaintso |
I've never been accused of being the sharpest or dullest tack in the box but it seems logical that more RPMS would cause more heat........ with speed being held constant. Heat is caused by the burning/explosion of the fuel in the engine. More explosions per minute = more heat. Plus when you're lugging it the engine runs rich right? So if a lean motor run hotter than a rich one? Wouldn't the rich engine not be as hot? (More gas being sent out the exhaust and not being burned). But like I said I'm no genius and have never stayed in a Holiday Inn Express. | ||
| Froggy |
Yea Ft I was going to test the heat by running at the same speed, like 50 on the slab, do a 10 minute loop, about 5 miles each direction, then check and record my ECMspy results. Repeat 4 more times in each gear. As for MPG, I would need to do more and longer testing, but last time I tried it I got 10% less fuel economy in 4th vs 5th. Sayitaintso, my theory is that under 4000rpm is Buell complying to EPA regs, then above 4000 is the fun zone, the bike runs cooler because more fuel is being dumped into the engine. Or something.  | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
That would be true were our bikes not air/oil cooled. At lower RPMs, the oil is circulated at lower pressures. This is like spinning your water pump at half the speed. The result is higher temperatures. Additionally, there is less lubricant available for both the connecting pin bearing channels and cylinder walls resulting in more heat and greater friction. The engine also runs smoother the higher the rpms. The lower rpms create greater vibrations resulting in heat. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I think a 3rd/4th test might be better. |
