| Author | Message | ||
     Dio |
In all the photos of the "smoked" 77 connector, it appears as though its always the ground side (black wire) that's fried. Is this coincidence, or are there other ground problems that are manifesting themselves here at this connection. Someone earlier made a comment about "floating a ground" in the charging circuit, which might be inadvertently repaired when a new voltage regulator is installed. Is it possible that there may be 2 separate issues at work on the 77 connector - marginal continuity through the connector, and a ground problem in the charging circuit? I also wonder about the capacity of the SAE type bullet style connector that some are proposing to use here. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
Where is the connector in the circuit? | ||
| Teeps |
The photos I've seen would seem to indicate localized resistance in the terminal connections. Resistance + current = heat which causes more resistance, which causes more heat; until one side of the circuit fails completely. | ||
| Mnrider |
Thanks Xbeemer for the great response to this issue. That connector is under the front sprocket cover under a bunch of other connectors.I checked mine last night to make sure it was fully seated. I think I would remove that connector and solder and shrink wrap or a crimp and shrink wrap.connectors are only for ease of assy. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
Is it between the alternator and the regulator? Is it between the regulator and the rest of the bike? What do those two wires connect to? | ||
| Maximum |
It connects the VR to the battery. | ||
| Hughlysses |
My 77 connector had the very slightest burn mark on one of the two terminals, but it allowed the battery to go stone-dead after ~30 miles of interstate riding. It evidently never got hot enough to melt the plastic housing, but it did strand me. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
Any reports of these things crapping out in the 2008 bikes? What about the other XBs? | ||
| Hughlysses |
IIRC the 2008's and 2009's use a different connector from the 2006's and 2007's, so Buell may have corrected this. I never heard of one crapping out on a non-Uly XB, but I don't know why they'd be different. | ||
| Froggy |
Hugh, the other XB's have issues all the time. Keep an eye on the Xboard. Also, my 06 SS had the issue of a partly melted 77 connector. I fixed it, then I had the dealer warranty replace both my stator and VR. Also, the 08+ bikes have a totally different charging system, including a different stator and VR. Nobody has reported any failures yet. | ||
| Tootal |
I pulled all those connectors apart since they are so close to a water spray source. They were still clean so I used some dielectric grease on all of the connections. This keeps the corrosion away which is what causes the resistance and ultimately heat, in the first place. Have not had any problems here. | ||
| Mnrider |
I have an 06 I bought new in oct. and the connector is clean and since I cant ride cause the roads are iced over I'm going to take the 77 connector apart and put dielectric grease in it and check my grounds and maybe add a cable between where the battery grounds at the tail section and down at the engine rear mount. | ||
| Hughlysses |
The terminals in my connector showed no corrosion; I believe the problem is the sockets weren't tight enough. I polished them with ~400 grit sandpaper, squeezed them down with needle nose pliers, reassembled the connector, and haven't had a problem since. Oh yea, I added an LED voltmeter at the same time, so I KNOW that the connector is not causing a problem. The voltmeter should be a mandatory piece of equipment for any bike. | ||
| Xbimmer |
http://docs.google.com/view?docid=d4rbxwr_20dq5khf BadWebber RayS put this together, addresses the loose connector issue. | ||
| Atoms |
X and RayS. Bravo! I've added a link to that to my Spring TODO list. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
Odd! one of the wires comes off of the regulator and goes through the 77 to get to ground! I wonder why not just ground the regulator to the frame and be done with it? | ||
| Mnrider |
Thank you RayS and thanks again Xbimmer,I doing that tonight. Sorry I spelled your name wrong last time. | ||
| Hughlysses |
1000 praises for RayS's page. I found it at 4 AM one morning while trying to diagnose my Uly's problem AFTER having missed the first day of vacation in the N GA mountains due to a dead bike. Ray saved my vacation!  | ||
| Froggy |
Interesting, found this part number: Y1312.02A8 VOLTAGE REGULATOR CONNECTOR SERVICE KIT Retail Price:$19.40 Wish I knew more about it. | ||
| Rays |
Wow! - as a completely besotted Uly owner it is fantastic to see this tech tip help some fellow Buellers.  My dealer struggled with this problem and failed to find the issue (twice) as it was intermittent. After I eventually diagnosed the problem (that was 52,000km ago and I still haven't changed the pins) and put together the first version of that document I passed it onto the manager of the service department at my dealer. I know that they have diagnosed the same issue with at least 3 other '06 Ulys and an '05 Lightning. I was there when they pulled the connector apart with the Lightning and that was identical to Uly so I'm sure the issue isn't confined to Ulys. Froggy - good find on that kit. For that price (even at the current exchange rate) I'll order one to see what it is.  (Message edited by Rays on January 23, 2009) | ||
| Mnrider |
Did mine last night only took me 2 beers could have dragged it out to three but it was cold in the garage. | ||
| Pso |
Rays please keep us posted. Also mine went on on a four lane highway during rush hour. it was scary, I still thnk this is a safety recall issue that should be addressed by NHTSA. Seems like if it went out and the bike went dead so could the rider in certain situations. | ||
| Maximum |
You have about 5-10 minutes after the check engine light comes on...depending on how strong your battery is. So it gives you some time to get to a safe area to stop, but not much. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Maximum- IIRC, my check engine light never came on. First indication I had was when speedo and tach dropped to zero- maybe 2 minutes later bike died. | ||
| Baydog |
Hmmmm. Looking at the schematic on the above web page, I wonder if downsizing the fuse to 20-25 amps would save the connector if things start to go wrong. I'd rather pop a fuse than melt the connector. In my case when it went, the VR went with it. I had almost no warning at all. I definitely plan on adding a digital volt meter. | ||
| Rays |
Personally I would add some form of voltage monitor as Hugh mentioned earlier. The FB mod is widely acclaimed is the US ranks - I have a much more agricultural LED bar graph in a small clear jiffy box. The additional knowledge of what the charging system is doing has been something of a security blanket for me ( go Linus) and it really should be considered as a future standard item. Charging system faults aren't limited to Buells either - my Kawasaki ZX12 is currently sitting in the shed with a burnt connector between the stator and the regulator! | ||
| Teeps |
Baydog Posted on Friday, January 23, 2009 I wonder if downsizing the fuse to 20-25 amps would save the connector if things start to go wrong. A smaller fuse would not prevent the resistance or the resultant heat at the connector. | ||
| Bobbuell1961 |
Maybe i got lucky,the first weekend i had mine in 05 i got stuck on the side of the road, just short of 500 mi, dead battery.made a call for a ride he's got a good hour + drive.since i had nothing to do i start diassembling, in about a 1/2 hr i found the problem at the "77". i could have done some reassembly and tried to bump start her (which people say can't be done) and call my friend who has been on the road for a while now and tell him to turn around or do as i did and walk up the road a bit the the nearest bar and tell him to meet me there and buy him a beer.long story short i reformed the terminals and applied some dielectric grease and this problem has fixed for 32k + | ||
| Pso |
Maximum, My light never came on either. | ||
| Baydog |
"A smaller fuse would not prevent the resistance or the resultant heat at the connector". I'm not an electrical engineer, so help me out here. Ohm's law says that as the resistance in a circuit increases, the circuit's ability to carry current decreases. If you continue to try to pass the same amount of current through increasing resistance, heat is the result. Hence the melted connectors. My point was that if the battery fuse was sized smaller than the connector's ability to carry current the fuse would be weak link and blow before catastrophic connector failure. The fuse blowing would be an indicator that the circuit was seeing increased resistance. The trick would be sizing it right. BTW- according to Ohm's law, if I'm calculating right, the 30A battery fuse will tolerate about .4 ohms of resistance in the circuit before the fuse would blow. That ain't much resistance. If that's true, I'm gonna use dielectric grease in the connector to try to prevent corrosion. I agree that a digital VM is the way to go. Just wondering if it could be handled by a fuse as a failsafe. Maybe an EE can chime in and tell me if I am right or wrong. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
A wire conducting 10 amps with less than .01 Ohm wouldn't emit heat as much as a 1 amp load across 1 Ohm resistance. Heat is from WATTAGE. Volts * Current = Watts. Ohm's Law: don't defy it!  |
