| Author | Message | ||
     Wbrisett |
I just had a very interesting conversation with my bank. I wanted to move my Uly loan over from MB Financial (the bank that the dealership had some financing offer from at the time, that beat my banks interest rate). I really don't like dealing with MB, so I got my payoff and called my bank. While looking up the value of my Uly, they came up with a value of $8680 for a 2007 XB12X. I was a bit shocked to see how quickly the value of the Ulysses had dropped. I tried to have her look up a 2008 XB12XT since that more or less is what my bike is, but their computers don't show an XT version. Anybody ever total their bike, or try to transfer a loan and got a shock when they were told how much the bike was worth to the bank/insurance company? I'm just a bit dismayed at this point since my BMW has really held a lot of it's value. Wayne | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
It's a motorcycle. They plummet in value the millisecond you roll them off the lot. It's not just your bike. It's ALL bikes. | ||
| Jammin_joules |
Try and refinance your BMW and you will find the same thing. Or call your bank on trying to refinance your Toyota Tundra Crew Cab. First few years are the hardest on resale because most people finance the whole purchase, or 90% of it, which includes MSRP, dealer prep, title work, sales tax, freight... but banks only finance based on book value, which starts from MSRP. In years past, folks got accustomed to hearing about rates dropping and refinancing homes. But, in years past, homes appreciate in value and often have improvements made (landscaping, new roof, garage addition, pool). Municipalities are motivated to give increased assesments because they can generate more tax revenue. But motor vehicles are not like that, unless you are talking colletibles like muscle cars, a nice '68 Shelby Mustang comes to mind. But sometimes like with our bikes, no matter how many improvements we make, anything but a pristine restoration that modifies this vehicle, no matter how much we may enjoy it, likely detracts from its value. I just had a guy trying to get a buy-bid on his 2008 Toyota Tundra Crew Cab, leather, GPS, big wheel option, paid $43,000 in the early spring, I can't get a buyer interested at over $23,000. Toyota is offering '09's at $10k off, same model sells for $32,000 right now. A motor vehicle is not an investment. It depreciates in value, for the most part, and borrowing money to buy something that depreciates in value is a costly activity. Buy them to use and enjoy them...period. I could be wrong, but I doubt it. ~jammer | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Very few motor vehicles are in an investment.   | ||
| Hangetsu |
That being said, I think there is one bike out there that defies this trend to some degree. Now I'd never post such a thing on ADV Biker, out of fear of being lynched, but I think Buell guys can handle it. The one bike that holds value, at least against other bikes is a Harley. I don't have actual sales figures here to compare, but several months back when I was negotiating the financing of my Uly, my credit union had a poster up stating that they would offer the same low auto financing rate (6.25 at the time) to Harley buyers. I thought "Wow"! a Buell's a Harley…, sort of; but when I inquired about getting the same rate, I was denied. Apparently there is data showing Harleys as having a significantly lower depreciation rate over all other brands. How much? I don't know, but apparently enough for a credit union to offer Harley buyers a much better interest rate. | ||
| Adamd |
Every vehicle I've financed I was able to sell it and payoff the balance, most times without ever of having put money down. The Buell, I put 5 grand down I think I bought it for 14 600 + warranty... I couldn't sell it to payoff the balance or the buell would have been gone. Balance is 9 500 CDN funds. | ||
| Froggy |
I bought a brand new leftover 06 Uly in March 2007. Got in a not really bad wreck with it in October 2007. Insurance company totaled it, probably because of the nick in the paint counts as frame damage. Needless to say, I had a 7 month old motorcycle, and I owed somewhere near $12k on it still. Insurance company gave me only $8k for it. It’s all paid off now, but because of that I couldn't afford to buy another Uly. | ||
| Adamd |
I agree with the Harleys keeping their value. I hate harleys, but I would have traded the ULY on a Harley just so I could resell it easier. The Dealer won't give much on the ULY though... It's hard to sell ULY's.... | ||
| Zane |
This may be the thread to ask this question. I've been on the NADA site and there is no data for used 2008 XB12XT. Local dealer has one with low mileage. Very low miles and in good shape. My guess is that it would be worth in the neighborhood of $10,000 but that is just a guessimate. Anyone have a realistic number. It's been titled but not ridden much and is probably a 10 out of 10. | ||
| Wbrisett |
I totally understand all of this, I was simply shocked at how much the bike had devalued in 10 months. I just did the math, the RT has devalued at a rate of 8% per year. Right now, the Ulysses is sitting in the 20% bracket. Now, I suspect it's not going to fall much over the next year or so, which will bring it down a bit, but 20% is pretty steep I think. I realize it's not an investment, hell it's pure fun. I was just shocked to learn the devaluation. Wayne | ||
| Khelton |
Always buy used, same with boats..let someone else take the $2000 hit for the driving out of th showroom... | ||
| Svh |
Zane to get a good enough value just use a 2008 XB12X. That will at least get you close. I paid a little more than that for mine in August brand new. Good luck. | ||
| Ourdee |
Zane, Kelly Blue Book "WWW.KBB.COM" Doesn't have it either. The X for 08, retail was about 9,000$ They allow for 5300 miles. Their standard for bags top & side was 270$ total. If you gave it 1,000$ for bags that would be right at 10 G.s. I'd say if you could get it for under or at 10 grand with a 2 year warranty go for it. I'd really want the warranty, you do too. A plus would be if the 1000 mile service had been done, you want it documented. Oh, do the tires still look new as compared to a burn-out queen? Yep, I'd have got a used one instead of new for that kind of savings. They didn't have a used one sitting around, so....  | ||
| Wbrisett |
OK, I feel much better now. I just worked out the numbers for three bikes. The BMW RT, Triumph Tiger, and Buell Ulysses. I used the NADA value (since that's what my bank used) and the MSRP for all the bikes. I made all of them 2007 models. I chose these three since I own two of them and came "this close" to buying the Tiger over the Uly. What I found was yes, the BMW did hold its value better than the other two, but it wasn't as bad between the Ulysses and RT as I thought it would be. The Tiger on the other hand, devalued much more than the other two, and by quite a bit.... color me shocked.  | ||
| Stacky |
I was interested in trading in my '06 Uly for an '09 XT, but found I was still upside down. I financed every penny of the Uly's purchase price--my '04 BMW Rockster fetched in trade what I owed on it three years on--so I expected to be upside down a bit. But we're still about $2G apart. I'll give it another year and check again. H-Ds retain their value because people's willingness to pay is not predicated upon practical matters. The H-D buyer is seeking entry into a quasi-religious brotherhood; it has nothing to do with how "used up" the bike is. This is the upshot of H-D's brilliant marketing blitz. | ||
| Zane |
The XT has less that 1000 miles and has already had the 1000 mile service. Asking price is $11,995. This thing is brand new looking and even the right color for me, red. I can't afford to pull the trigger right now and I don't expect this deal to be around very long. Well there will be others. Did you see Court's post on the Quick Board. HD is giving stock away with every new bike sold. If I had two nickels to rub together right now... (Message edited by Zane on December 12, 2008) | ||
| Dentguy |
When my Uly was totaled I had owned it for 2 years and 1 month. Insurance gave me $9542.86 (incl.side bags) less my deduct of $250.00. I was glad they totaled it because that was much better than what I could have sold it for. One good thing came out of hitting a deer. | ||
| Jjg0324 |
Back in 1998 I took my first ride on a Buell S3 and fell in love. I had a 1993 Harley FXRS that I was able to trade to the dealer straight across for a new S3. All I had to do was pay sales tax and license. In 2005 I sold my S3 in order to buy my currently 2006 Uly. I was only able to get $3,500 for it at that time. If I still had the FXR, it would have been worth around $10,000. So I am a firm believer in the Harley holds its value better then Buell theory. | ||
| Krassh |
H-Ds retain their value because people's willingness to pay is not predicated upon practical matters Not as true anymore. When they went to the 96 CI Twin Cam in '07 the previous years models declined in resale value. Then in '09 they redesigned the touring models now everything before the '09 in regards to resale value has dropped. | ||
| Jammin_joules |
There are always anomolies, exceptions. When the Mazda Miata first hit the show rooms, people were selling their newly acquired ones for $5,000 over what they just paid because demand was so high. That disappeared within the next model year as Mazda cranked them out. Same as the last couple Mustang retro models. The new Harley Tri-Glide is being first issued two per dealership. We sold both at MSRP months before they shipped (already delivered first one) because local dealers told my buyers they were going to sell them at $2-4,000 over MSRP. I guess Harley's sometimes can still get away with this practice that was more common pre-2003, but I hope buyers remember dealers doing that, and come around to shops like ours to buy at fair market prices. ~jammer | ||
| Court |
I've bought a boatload of motorcycles over the years . . . some (the XLCR and XR-1000 come to mind) have worked out okay . . but I have NEVER bought a motorcycle for an investment. That's scary. If you are investing buy ED, if you want to have fun buy a motorcycle. | ||
| Jjg0324 |
Court thats why I have changed my approach, just buying the new ones and keeping the old ones! Going to the Cycle world International Motorcycle Show this weekend. Oh boy ! | ||
| Ratbuell |
Did you see Court's post on the Quick Board. HD is giving stock away with every new bike sold. If I had two nickels to rub together right now... If you read the entire post, it's not HD that's giving away stock...it's an HD *dealer*. NOT a factory promo. | ||
| Onemanclan |
"Always buy used, same with boats..let someone else take the $2000 hit for the driving out of the showroom..." That $2000 also includes the knowledge that whatever you've bought was broken in correctly, operated appropriately, didn't miss any services, etc. Peace of mind has value too. I haven't always bought new (I like vintage stuff), but every time I've bought something almost new I've felt cheated somehow. I like to buy new trucks, cars, and bikes... To respond to the thread...Mine's been paid off for quite a while, and since I have no intention of getting rid of it depreciation isn't an issue for me! | ||
| Johnboy777 |
Before I bought my new '07 Uly, I ck'd around and saw that the floor on used ones seemed to me to be around $6,000 of so. Before I purchased my bike I felt that the $4,000 non-recoverable hit ($9,999 purchase price vs. a $6,000 worst case scenario resale price) was for me at least, the price of admission. Ya gotta pay to play, whether is bikes, cars, boats or whatever. . | ||
| Gotj |
Jjg0324: Going to the Cycle world International Motorcycle Show this weekend. Oh boy! Not to hijack this thread, but would you mind posting a review of the show? I'm considering going to see it in New York and want to find out whether it is worth it - not the trip but just the show. TIA | ||
| Skinstains |
Yo City, is that your ride ? If so what is it a 39 ? | ||
| Tipsymcstagger |
Always buy used, same with boats..let someone else take the $2000 hit for the driving out of th showroom... Exactly! I bought my '08 XB12X in mid April of this year, used. The previous owner bought it March 10th. In fact, from the time we first spoke about the sale, I had to wait several weeks for him to receive the title in the mail. I paid $9500 with full factory luggage, 414 miles on the odo and 22 1/2 months of warranty remaining. In July, I bought an '03 DRZ 400 with a bunch of extras for $2000. It blows my mind how many guys over on Thumper Talk are thrilled that they just forked over $6000+ on for new DR-Z. Tipsy | ||
| Paul56 |
I totally agree that a bike isn't an investment. Certain makes/models definitely retain more value, but that is the exception not the rule. My Uly is the first new motorcycle I've ever owned. I rode my 79 Yamaha 650 for 86k miles and gave it away. Same with my 90 Suzuki VX800- put 66k on it and gave it away at 96k. I like this bike so much that I'll probably overhaul/refurbish it and keep it when the time comes. | ||
| Sachmo |
All this is made even by a lot of the credit "deals" that are out there. Zero down, low monthly payments both add up to being upside down on a loan for the longest time. Unless you plan to keep your bike for a long time buying new is never a good idea and you have to pay on it aggressively. I buy new and used cars depending on what I want to do. I just totaled a 08XT that I had for 5 months insurance covered $10500 after deductible but I had it paid down close to that so it didn't kill me to get out from under it. I then just bought a bike I could pay cash for and if I need to get rid of it fast in the spring I can with very little lost. In these times everyone needs to be smart and know what they are getting themselves into. | ||
| Tipsymcstagger |
It always cracks me up when I see someone adamantly sticking to their asking price simply because that's how much they need to pay-off their loan. Vehicle depreciation and someone else's poor financial planning aren't my problem. The bikes not magically worth X number of dollars just because that's how much you still owe the bank. Tipsy | ||
| Jammin_joules |
How about 100% of MSRP for yoru one year old Harley Sportster? http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/142 838/421714.html?1229208564 ~jammer |
