| Author | Message | ||
     Dcc46 |
aside from them seizing is there anyway to tell there about to go? mine are starting to leak grease on the outside. am i just paranoid or is it time to get them changed ? also are they covered under warranty thanks | ||
| Dcc46 |
its an 06 with 6500 miles if that matters | ||
| Bud |
use the rear brake, get used to the feeling how deep you need to press the pedal. when your bearing are bad, you need to press the pedal deeper , do to the rear ( disk ) wheel wobbling and creating more space in between your brake pads, so you need to press the pedal deeper warrenty...? depends on your dealer | ||
| Hughlysses |
I wouldn't worry too much about a little grease. If you see metal particles in the grease or the seal is starting to shred, then start worrying. The easiest check you can do without removing the wheel is to jack the bike up and turn the wheel. If the wheel doesn't turn smoothly you may have a problem. The axle is hollow so you can stick your finger inside and feel for any signs of roughness in the bearings as you turn the wheel. Some people have taken the seals out (they can be removed without damage if you use a sharp object like a pin and are REALLY careful). If anything inside looks rusty or the grease looks rusty, time for new bearings. If the bearings are suspect and the bike's still under warranty, take it to the dealer and have them check it out. If it's not, it's no big deal to remove the wheel and replace the bearings yourself or have the bearings replaced at a shop. | ||
| Jlnance |
As far as I can tell, you don't get a lot of advance notice when the bearings fail. There are a few things you can do to check, which have been noted above. People have had them fail before 6500, but it's rare. Since you have an 06, my personal advice would be to pick up a set of the updated bearings (with the new seal) and replace them when you put your next rear tire on. | ||
| Jlnance |
As to warranty, if they fail, they are covered under warranty. If they are obviously about to fail, they are probably covered under warranty. If you're just worried about them, it gets a lot less likely to be a warranty item. | ||
| Court |
I'm watching mine VERY closely. One of my immediate concerns, albeit cosmetic, is the rust. No item designed to be exposed to the weather and to live it's life 12" above the pavement should have a surface that rusts. Rust is not a bad thing if you happen to be a piece of Cortan steel but in a wheel bearing it is, at the very least, a visual source of concern. I'll likely replace mine and try to do some forensic analysis (anyone know anyplace to send bearings?) but the bit question is what to replace them with. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Are there not updated bearings from Buell? What was it I heard about black sealed bearings? | ||
| Etennuly |
Court, I have found that when the tire is removed for replacement it is a good time for close inspection, repacking and sealing. When the wheel is off you can clean and then remove the outer seal with a safety pin. If the grease in the bearing has anything but clean (mine has translucent blue) grease the bearing, it is not a good sign and will require a closer look. If there is any rust or black stains on the balls, carrier or race they are junk and will most certainly fail. If the bearing is clean and looks good, I smear a little fresh grease into the bearing leaving room under the seal for air space. Then apply a liberal amount of anti-sieze compound to the axle during reassembly. On my bike I choose to smear a small amount of the anti-sieze on the outside of the rear seal and just enough to cover the outside surfaces of the bearing and the joint of the inner bearing race to axle mating point. It is my opinion that the water intrusion that has caused failures in the past, has happened between the axle's outside surface and the inside of the bearing race. There is a few thousands gap there so that the axle will slide through. It has no seal. When I took my axle out the first time it had a small amount of water intrusion into the cavity between the bearings that caused the galvanized coatings in there to stick and 'fuzz up'. After anti-sieze seal treatment..... five more tire changes and no more water intrusion, even after a few water crossings and wash jobs. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Are there not updated bearings from Buell? What was it I heard about black sealed bearings? FB- Yes, there are supposed to be. Later build 09 bikes have black seals on the bearings which would seem to indicate the updated part. There's another thread here where a guy is getting the updated bearings; he's gonna post pics once they're installed. | ||
| Curly |
mine have been rusted since day 2 and after 12,000 miles they seem to be ok. i stay on top of them with close inspection and listening for noise but so far all is well. | ||
| Florida_lime |
I just did front and rear tire changes yesterday, so "repacked" the bearings per usual. I had never done the front, but the grease looked like it had just been packed: translucent blue, and very clean. (23,500 miles) The rear grease was getting black, but the balls looked good, and the bearings were very smooth feeling when rotating the bearing. They got repacked again. These bearings have almost the same miles on them that my originals had when they went on Good Friday, so I'm keeping a close watch on them. | ||
| Bud |
call me headstrong, but i strongly believe it is a combination off factors, and they are mostly related with spacers and mounting the bearings in the first place, did some measurements, under the right axle tq , the spacer shrinks about 0.06mm i measured the length off one new spacer,( i need to measure more off theme to come up with a conclusion off tolerance in spacer length.) but there could be a difference in how deep you press in the bearing ( do to the length off the spacer ) i did some experimenting, pressing in the bearing until they are fully seated, and the become to tight, and the spacer would shrink that much to make it better. bearings get stressed, tend to get more side play , seals begin to failure.. pressing theme in until the inner races have contact with the spacer and they turn good for the road test i have don my own uly rear bearings like this ( SKF bearings ) now in about 5000 km.. and they still feel very good.. next week i get some wheels in, and i will do some more measuring keep you posted | ||
| Miamiuly |
My other bikes tend to have 3 bearings in the rear tire. Two in the rim and one in the cush drive. Guess that helps spread the load. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Do you ride off pavement? The life of that set of bearings is a direct correlation to how much time off road you spend. Mine went at 17k & 26, I keep a spare set in my tank bag now. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
I do the same as Etennuly except that I pretty well smear as much grease as possible and then press the seal back into place and then coat the outside with anti-seize. No bearing failure....yet. | ||
| Bud |
Skf advises not filling it completely with grease so the bearing has room the grease to move but this i what i mean,  see the spacer sticking out more than the bearing seat ( it's in this case 0.5 mm ) talked to several bearing experts, and they all said the same, deep groove bearings must be mounted with out preload, if i would press the bearing in to the seat ( witch very easily can be don with a press ) , is becomes way to tight than, and runs hotter due to the side preload, seal is not sealing properly , grease gets out ect.. there advice, press it in just toughing the spacer, ore late the spacer to the exact size ( it shrinks about 0.06 mm under the right TQ ) i proposed to use C3 qualification bearings, they have a little more tolerance in the bearing, but that's only a few µm, not really a option | ||
| Neurorider |
Bud, that is exactly my thought and my observation as well. Since most of us press the bearing in using the outer race to contact the press, this preloads the bearing in a side load. I shortened my spacer till it was only "a little" longer than the space between the hub faces, maybe a few thousandths longer. When I pressed the bearings all the way in, the spacer touched both of them but the bearing turned smoothly. I'm not sure if I got it exactly right, but there's no play and the bike rolls so much more smoothly! | ||
| Hughlysses |
I think I inadvertently installed my bearings correctly ~7 months ago when I changed them. While I was at Harbor Freight picking up the blind bearing puller, I noticed they had a cheap bearing installation kit, which consisted of a set of "stepped" plastic disks and a metal driver "handle". Each disk has a center section that fits inside the I.D. of the bearing and has a flat part that presses against both the inner and outer races. I froze the bearings and tapped them in until they lightly seated, which should mean there was no side-loading on the balls. ~6500 miles later, the Koyo bearings are doing well, so maybe I installed them correctly and they'll last ~50,000 more. | ||
| Dio |
This shouldn't be hard to do correctly, if you support the first bearing on the inner race when installing the second bearing in the wheel. If you use a flat piece of plate or a driver that pushes both the inner and outer bearing races of the second bearing at the same time, the bearing spacer will stop movement without preloading. I can see where it would be very easy to preload bearings if they are pushed in by only the outside race. There would be no way to determine when the inner race of the second bearing just touches the spacer. I suspect some bearing failures could be caused by installation issues. | ||
| Xbimmer |
This shouldn't be hard to do correctly, if you support the first bearing on the inner race when installing the second bearing in the wheel. If you use a flat piece of plate or a driver that pushes both the inner and outer bearing races of the second bearing at the same time, the bearing spacer will stop movement without preloading. Which is exactly what the factory tool does when the bearings are installed by procedure. Rotor side in first, then spacer, then the other side. The factory tools look like the way to go but I don't even want to speculate on the cost of them... | ||
| Bearly |
800 and some dollars, for the one in the Manual. I wish I could afford that. But needing the tool once every year and a half, it would take a few years for it to pay for it's self. I bought the Jim's tool ($259?) and it was very well made, EXCEPT... Jim doesn't know that the ID of the rear bearing is closer to 1.2 than 1. The tool broke after three uses. The last time I checked(09 catalog), Jim isn't going to make anything for a 1.2 id. To the Subject... I had a rear bearing go at around 10500 miles. I was riding fortunately near home when I thought I heard was I would describe as a rock in the tread of the tire (I still had the stock pipe on). I stopped to check, and of course found nothing embedded in the tire, twice. After just a few minutes it got louder and I headed for home(12 miles). Took off the helmet and just pushing the bike you could hear the bearing(s) grinding. Took the wheel off and found the right rear bearing was not smooth when turning it with my fingers. | ||
| Billg |
I replaced mine (2006 model) at 12000 miles, even though there was no indication of looseness, noise, or rear brake feel. I you peeked under the seal, you could see a little bit of brownish grease, but that was the only indication. They were a "butch" to get out (I had to use a dremel cut-off tool).   | ||
| Xbimmer |
This guy might have tools that will work: http://www.georges-garage.com/chassis_tools.htm Part #740010 looks good... Never mind, just talked to him, he told me it probably wouldn't work on XB wheels. Cool thing though is he just told me he's had inquiries before and he was going to pick up a Buell SM to check out the factory setup. He said it wouldn't be hard to make the appropriate pieces. Seemed like a sincere guy, maybe we'll have a Buell kit soon! (Message edited by xbimmer on November 15, 2008) | ||
| Teeps |
The spacer theory would appear to be the winner. And, would explain the seemingly randomness of the failures. However, I can't help but wonder how much that spacer compresses when the axle is torqued. We need the blueprint spec on the spacer length with tolerances. Then we'll know for sure if the one in the picture (above)is too long. | ||
| Bud |
However, I can't help but wonder how much that spacer compresses when the axle is torqued. We need the blueprint spec on the spacer length with tolerances. Then we'll know for sure if the one in the picture (above)is too long. it shrinks ( front ) about 0.06 mm ( 0.002 in ) with 55NM ( 40,5 ft/lbs ) still need to do the rear, but i think is has a similar value and i starting to measure every spacer i take out. This shouldn't be hard to do correctly, if you support the first bearing on the inner race when installing the second bearing in the wheel. If you use a flat piece of plate or a driver that pushes both the inner and outer bearing races of the second bearing at the same time, the bearing spacer will stop movement without preloading. I can see where it would be very easy to preload bearings if they are pushed in by only the outside race. There would be no way to determine when the inner race of the second bearing just touches the spacer. I suspect some bearing failures could be caused by installation issues. seams the best way, with out the special tools i always did it on feel until now, made me self a nice pair off pressing tools to over come this problem, still need to watch out with our 45 metric ton press  (Message edited by bud on November 17, 2008) | ||
| Dio |
.002" compression shouldn't make enough difference to cause problems. If the spacer is shortened too much, and the brake side bearing bottoms in the hub, a pre-load will be placed on the bearings when the axle is tightened. The length of the spacer is not critical - if it's not too short - and the correct installation process is followed. The second bearing needs to be pressed in with equal support on both the inner and outer races, while supporting the pulley side bearing inner race. | ||
| Dio |
The other consideration is that when you change the length of the spacer, you will change the location of the rear wheel assembly in the swing arm, which will negatively affect drive belt alignment. Remember that this wheel is pushed to the left side of the swing arm when the axle is tightened, and the pulley side of the axle "floats" in the swing arm. | ||
| Gamdh |
I got my new bearings in the mail today. They do have black seals, they are made in South Korea.. looks like KBC?? Funny, the new rear bearings are actually cheaper than the originals. | ||
| Hughlysses |
I got my new bearings in the mail today. They do have black seals, they are made in South Korea.. looks like KBC?? Funny, the new rear bearings are actually cheaper than the originals. Cool- now photos please! |
