| Author | Message | ||
     Tginnh |
Did anyone catch the Motorcycle Consumer News Sept 08 adventure touring comparison? The review torqued me off enough to write to the editor. Following is our email thread in chronological order (from last to first): I lied. I’m following up since I just received the November 2008 issue of MCN and there is no mention of the mistakes you made in the issue – at least I could not find any. I did see that you managed to print a letter from a reader wondering why the V-Strom was left out of the comparison. You even agreed with the reader’s assumptions. Again, I point you to the bias against the Buell in your original article and the nit-picking lengths you went to in trashing the bike. So, we can disagree about the suspension, comfort, etc., but not factual matters. Your disinterest or whatever it is that has kept you from correcting this misprint is Buell-#&$*! And yes, you can rest assured that you have lost this subscriber. Troy Gerton Hi Dave – this will be my last response to this thread since I don’t want to belabor the point. At a minimum, your article WAS factually incorrect about the helmet lock and reserve display. I point you to Buell’s website where both of these features are described: http://www.buell.com/en_us/bikes/adventure/XB12XT/ features.asp I trust, at a minimum, you will correct this mistake in an upcoming edition. Troy Troy, I’m sorry I can’t remember those items, and we gave the bike back months ago so I don’t have it here to check. Best, Dave Thanks for the reply, Dave. What about the helmet lock and miles on reserve display for the Uly? Did they do away with these for the 08 model or was this a misprint? Thanks…Troy Troy, I can understand that you might be upset by our comments, but when three bikes are ridden back to back, many subtleties that would otherwise be missed can be clearly determined. Also, the years we’ve spent in our profession enables us to be sensitive to things that perhaps you might not notice as you adapt to the peculiarities of the bike you own. I do the same with the bikes I own. The Buell’s very short wheelbase and comparatively radical steering geometry are what it make it so sensitive to weight shift, you’re right. The slow-to-release front brake may have been a peculiar factor of our individual bike, but it was in the factory press fleet, and therefore should have been a very good example of the breed. The seat was changed in 2007 and the 2006 seat was excellent, as we pointed out. Shifting is ridiculously difficult on the Buell, particularly by comparison with very nice transmissions on the KTM and BMW. And BMW has done a lot to improve the transmission since your K100RS, and this year’s GS is the best yet. The Buell was the only machine that had engine issues on our trip, with misfiring and stalling, not to mention scalding heat on the rider’s right leg. The Buell’s seating position is cramped, and again, particularly by comparison with the competitors. And the new lower seat aggravates that situation. Extra space had to be given to describing features of the BMW that were unusual, like the Telelever, Paralever and the ESA suspension. The Buell’s suspension is very good, but Buells have all been very sensitive to setup, because of the short wheelbase and steering numbers, so “fiddling” is much more important to get the most from their suspension. I wrote a fairly glowing review, myself, of the 2006 Ulysses when it was introduced (except for the heat issues) but when you compare bikes directly, it’s very hard to ignore where one is less competent than the other. We tried to suggest what could be done to fix the problems we noted, and we know that the review won’t make us popular with Buell PR or owners like yourself, but if you were considering buying one of these machines right now, we hoped to provide the reasons for our own preferences. Aftermarket fixes are also available, as you mention, but we’re obliged to test the machines the way they are sold. Personally, the KTM is my choice of the three, but it certainly did not best the BMW the majority of the time on the variety of roads we travelled. I prefer greater dirt road capability than the BMW demonstrated. I also own good chain cleaning equipment. Thank you for your thoughts and I hope you can understand ours. Best regards, Dave I usually would not spend part of my Sunday morning responding to anything I read in a magazine, but after reading the lopsided adventure touring article in your latest edition, I felt compelled to. Yes, I own a 2006 Uly. This comparison article was all about the BMW, a little about the KTM and how much you could dump on the Buell. Your article went to great lengths in describing all the wonders of the Bavarian machine, but the only time you covered anything in depth about the Buell was to go on at length about the engine performance and heat. You complained about not being able to find neutral? Are you serious? I’ve ridden many makes and models and have always found that “finding” neutral is different for all bikes. One of the most troublesome bikes for finding neutral for me was a BMW K100RS I owned. Good thing it had a dummy light to let me know when I found it. However, I never complained about it or gave it a second thought. You went on at great length about the BMW Telelever and Paralever suspension and shrugged off the loss of feel this suspension package delivers by stating that the rider “soon learns to trust that front grip on pavement is reliable.” Are you kidding? This is a show stopper for many riders. I like beemers, and think the engineering involved in this type of arrangement is marvelous, but it’s not for me. In the short paragraph on the Buell, all you did was knock the suspension for some perceived “loosening.” What is that about? Sounds like the KTM and Buell suspensions are pretty similar in design and flexibility. My Buell was stiff when delivered with the factory settings, like the KTM, but you didn’t mention that. I “softened” the ride on my Uly by backing off all the settings, but you didn’t mention that flexibility. My Buell “soaks” up road imperfections like a sponge, but you didn’t mention that. All that you managed to do was knock the Buell in this area with your choice of words like “fiddle.” Also, you took two paragraphs in this section to discuss the BMW shaft drive. The Buell got a slight mention here for its belt drive, but nothing of note. How about taking the opportunity to laud and appreciate the NO maintenance aspect of the Buell belt drive. Compare that with the maintenance of a chain (did you enjoy cleaning the KTM chain on those dirt roads?) or a shaft drive. This was and continues to be a huge attraction to the bike. How often does a shaft drive need to be examined, at what cost and is this typically done by the owner? We all know the answers On braking – why doesn’t the KTM suffer from the same strong weight transfer forward under braking? Is it the longer wheel base? Also, how many of us readers/riders can fully appreciate the nuances of trail braking with a fully loaded touring bike on an open highway? I trail brake on occasion; at least that’s what I call it. I did appreciate your comment about Buell going where you think about looking. Again, another huge attraction to the bike. I have had the short seat on my 06 from day one. I have never been saddle sore. Did the configuration of the seat change in 08? The seat comfort of the Uly was lauded when it debuted. How is my short seat different from the 08 model? Also, your comment about the “severe knee bend” due to the short seat is baloney. You make it sound like the rider’s knees are up in his/her chest. I direct you to pages 14 and 15 in your article that illustrate the riding positions on the Buell and BMW. Are you kidding? I don’t know about the KTM, but the Uly DOES have a miles on reserve that switches the display when the reserve capacity is reached. Did you get the two bikes confused or simply fail to mention that the Buell had the same feature? The Buell Ulysses is not a perfect bike for all occasions. Does such a bike exist and for a reasonable price? There is much to like and some things that I do dislike about the bike. Yes, heat is a huge issue and I agree that the deflector doesn’t do much to alleviate the problem. I’m considering getting the headers ceramic coated to address the issue. I have also spoken to owners who claim that wrapping the pipes does the trick. As for the windscreen – you can get one as tall as you like. There are 3rd party venders out there that make them as tall as you like. Yes, the rear brake doesn’t do much, but many riders would argue this is a good thing. The front brake, with its unique perimeter rotor, is all the brake I seem to need and I don’t get your “slow to release” comment about the brake pads. I can not discern such subtleties. I really don’t understand how a bike that debuted two short years ago and was lauded by all the major cycle publications has become such a dog in your view. There is much to consider when owning a motorcycle, cost of ownership not being the least of these factors. To reiterate, I like beemers, but the cost of everything BMW (including excise tax to the state!) can be a bit hard on the wallet. I fully expected the Buell to come in third against the KTM and BMW in a comparison and that’s alright. What I didn’t expect was a total thrashing of good, solid, fun bike that in the past has received glowing reviews. You forgot to mention the fun factor. The Uly, simply put, is plain fun to ride. I understand and appreciate that the staff at MC news have incredible insight and depth of knowledge and experience that far exceed the common rider such as me which is why I subscribe to your magazine. It’s just that your glaring omissions and bias were a bit too much to let slide. | ||
| Whitj |
I too get MCN and I say..Why bother w/ Dave? He made his mind up as you have as well. Go ride and have fun. Hell, put that MCN issue under your rear tire and dump the clutch. | ||
| Johnboy777 |
Let's face it, a lot of gripes that these journalist point out are indeed 'true'. Let's have the balls to call a spade a spade. I for one bought an un-ridable motorcycle, only to face dealing with a dealer who could care less. I was even told by my dealer, "that's how these Buell's run" My bike coughed, sputtered, bucked and stalled... it never should have left the factory like that, in the first place. Maybe Buell will read these reviews and correct some of these things (quirks?) before they leave the factory. Lastly, in order to get my bike to run properly, with no help from my dealer, I had to learn to program my fuel delivery software.... WTF was that all about! Thank goodness for ECMspy. Good on MCN for pointing some of these things out - let hope Buell is listening. . | ||
| Bzrider |
if that torqued you pick up this months cycle world .no mention off buell in their adventure review but check out the specs on the bike they speak well about. its crap | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
I have run 10% ethanol in my ULY since I bought it 16,000+ miles ago new in Oct of 2005. My bike has run great and never been dealer serviced and I reset the TPS myself back at the 10,000 mile mark even though it was running great. Only fouled a rear plug once at 5,000 miles and that was probably from blipping the throttle which I quit doing and no more problems. Maybe I got the opposite of a Lemon, let's call it a Nomel. Yeah, mines a Nomel. | ||
| Werewulf |
not to high-jack, but how does the uly compare to the bmw in the power dept? i read that the beemer puts the uly to shame and thats hard to imagine.. | ||
| Ironhead1977 |
I ride my Buell because it is not perfect -just like me. | ||
| Panhead_dan |
how does the uly compare to the bmw in the power dept? Weight to power ratio is the thing and I think the Beemer has a slight advantage. I would prefer to ride the lighter bike even if it's down a little bit on power. Not to mention the 50 mpg... jmo Dan | ||
| Chrisxt |
Unfortunately what the dealer does, or what I do, I only get 38 mpg on my XT. I can shift at 5k or shift at 2.5k and it doesn't matter, it sucks gas and that sucks my friends. | ||
| Jphish |
I think the 1200GS and the Uly both have around 100hp & 85lbs torque (+/- 5%) The GS is about 80# heavier I believe. So don't think it has any spec advantage over the Uly. My riding partner had a 1150 GSA - no match for the Uly in turns or straits. On his new R1200GS... we are now pretty evenly matched. | ||
| Tipsymcstagger |
I've come to accept the Uly for what it is. A lot of my buddies just rode the Pine Barrens 300 in NJ this weekend. I was out of town, but even if I'd been home, there was no way the Uly and I were going to attend. This was a "big bike" event. Only bikes 500cc's and larger could participate. That ruled out my DR-Z. The terrain ruled out the Uly. For those of you who aren't familiar with the Pine Barrens, there is a lot of sand. In my opinion the Uly is incapable of traversing this kind of terrain. I do love the bike but there more I ride with these guys, the more it seems the Uly is left out of the fun. Here's the Pine Barrens 300 thread. To get a better feel for the terrain, skip to post #384. That's where most of the pics begin. Tipsy | ||
| Rotorhead |
All three bikes are like comparing apples to oranges to eggs. Match them up as you please. | ||
| Svh |
None of the poor reviews on the Uly have I read and said "thats a load of crap" about the negatives listed. Most are valid points. My 08 XT still sputters, backpops and stalls even with the most recent fuel download. The heat is bad on mine unless I am wearing full riding pants or it is less than 60 out. My transmission is notchy at best. I just HTFU because I love the bike more than I hate those quirks. No bike is perfect and I wouldn't want it to be. No character. My dad who is not into bikes talks all the time to people about my sweet looking Buell but never mentions my brothers Honda Shadow. | ||
| Court |
>>>>In my opinion the Uly is incapable of traversing this kind of terrain. Think of it as taking a Short Brothers to the Reno Air Races . . . The Uly was never intended for that terrain. It looks like a ball but I'd not be foolhearty enough to arrive on either a Uly or a GS. One of the neat things about Jersey is that you can take any legally registered bike on those trails as long as it's insured. Looks like it was a great time! | ||
| Ulyranger |
Product oriented magazines' (car, truck, motorcycle, etc.) reviews are all about opinions and we all know what they are like 'cuz we all have them. Sadly, it is also about who promotes better, like it or not. Reviewers never like the little guy, upstart, niche companies. They like the big, established companies that know how to promote the living crap out of their wares. (extreme generalization I know, but it's MHO and we all know what that's worth don't we?)  I don't subscribe to ANY magazines anymore for this and several other reasons. I will read my FIL's already thumbed copies though......  | ||
| M_singer |
I canceled my subscription to MCN years ago. I see they are still smoking crack. | ||
| Jphish |
After reviewing pic # 384... who in their right mind would take a sync equipped Uly or equivalent GS on that gobble hole track ?? Had alot of difficulty keeping enough speed in Baja, on my knobbied up 650KLR, to get through that kind of sand. Lots of fun ! - but alot of practice picking up the bike too. | ||
| Court |
I cancelled too. At first I was confused, then I found myself laughing hysterically as I read their garbage and finally I tossed them in the bin with Motorcyclist. I subscribe to ZERO motorcycle magazines now and buy them on an "as needed" basis. I don't need a 24 year old entry level journalist in Southern Cal telling me what I like and don't like. Where is Reg Kittrelle when we need him? | ||
| Tginnh |
I'm with Ulyranger and Court - I decided to let my cycle subscriptions lapse after the article and response I got from Dave Searle at MCN. | ||
| Red_chili |
It does sound like the Uly they tested was not properly prepped, and if so there is no excuse for that. A Uly should shift great. Still, you cannot test a bike on terrain it was never built for. Sheesh. I had a modern GS. Meh. Got rid of it. | ||
| Curly |
It's easy to get upset about this, but the reality is that we love Buell and we are in the minority. If i had listened to the mag reviews and my friends then i would have missed out on the best bike i have ever owned. Look around we dont't fit the mold. We're different and Buell is different. I love my Uly and no magazine article is going to convince me otherwise. | ||
| Ulyranger |
"It's easy to get upset about this, but the reality is that we love Buell and we are in the minority. If i had listened to the mag reviews and my friends then i would have missed out on the best bike i have ever owned. Look around we dont't fit the mold. We're different and Buell is different. I love my Uly and no magazine article is going to convince me otherwise." Exactly. | ||
| Danger_dave |
I don't know how many actual women have tested a Uly, but there sure have been some petticoat wearers. | ||
| Hangetsu |
I would never get upset about an article like this (and it's not the first I've seen to slam Buells)for my own sake. I don't know a seasoned, mature rider (the Uly's primary market) who really pays much attention to what they say anyway. It's the damage such an article does regarding the less enlightened, entry level market that bothers me. This demographic is motorcycling's biggest sector and Buell deserves that business. Between Thunderstorm and 1125 platforms, Eric Buell and Co. have created a beautiful line of motorcycles and the business they lose due to bonehead journalists and their biases is what stands between them, greater product expansion, and greater refinement of their current products. R & D costs $$$ and that money comes from sales. Cash injections from HD will only take them so far. I would bet that if 2/3 of the motorcycle shoppers from this sector sat on a Buell and rode it, it would give them the grins like nothing out of J-Land and very few offerings from the EU. But due to articles like these, few of them will ever even enter a shop under the sign of HD/Buell. | ||
| M2nc |
The Buell is not down on power when it compares to these bikes. I rode for three days with a modern R1200ST, higher power rating than a GS, and my Uly would pull it to 100mph. Above that I believe the BMW may come back but we did not go that fast on the street. We also rode the bike a little more aggressive than these folks did in this article. The rider on the BMW is much better than I. An instructor that flat out left me when he was on a Firebolt. But when he was on the BMW, I was able to catch back up at will. Again this was on an ST, and it handle better than the GS. I believe if they would have been on anything but slab, they would have found out that quirky suspension set up pays off big in the handling department. Hell if I was going to spend a week on a bike on roads with no turns, I believe I would pick anther bike too. Let say an FLHT! As for the KTM, I was impressed with the 990 Adventure's seating position. A great improvement over the 950. But if you read owner threads about the latest KTM's, they are having fueling issues just like Buell. In the comparison between the RC8 and GSX-R750, the RC8 low speed throttle issues was one reason they gave for turning a slower lap time than the Gixxer. It was a problems notice by many of us at Buellotoberfest while test riding the RC8. It is a problem owners are complaining about on Advrider. As for heat, the 990 Adventure was hotter than my Uly at the end of the day. Of course my Uly has 36K miles and 990 was new, but I was surprised by the heat coming off the bike. I do not put any stock in moto-mags opinions about Buells. Its like asking an economist how to deal with the health care. They call themselves experts, but they specialize in another field. To me I see a general conformist attitude in moto-mags. Anything that is different is criticized. Only the old-timers that have ridden since before the days of the Japanese invasion understand the value of different riding experience. The Buell is at the extreme of different so to conformist its the anti-Christ. | ||
| Red_chili |
Only the old-timers that have ridden since before the days of the Japanese invasion understand the value of different riding experience. HEY! Who you calling old?!? Just because I used to drool over Victor 441s, owned the first 348cc Bultaco Alpina (and dualsported it like the fool I was), and thought an AJS 250 MX was pretty cool...  | ||
| Cityxslicker |
I guarantee you that none of those 'reviewers' are pushing a street bike through the mud, muck and rockery they way I do on a weekly basis. Are there better bikes for the niche? Yep. Is there a comparably equipped battleax that I can throw at any road, street, goat path with as much power, comfort and confidence?... Nope. If I cared what everybody else thought, I would ride what everybody else does. | ||
| Skvarki |
I am really tired of the bias, limited rider spectrum and subjective nature of the comparative analysis in the motorcycle press too. The only rag I subscribe to now is Canadian Biker. They did a nice review on the XT alone in June 08 that listed its beauty and warts as a function of what it was designed to do and as I remember it got a good review. A lot of journalists ride for free, get free gear and are fanboys for certain brands directly/indirectly I'd guess. So I don't care what they say, I love my Uly and we all know that real beauty is in the eye of the beholder anyway.  | ||
| Royintulsa |
New GS about $20,000 New Uly about $12,00 Fix it up like Treadmarks bike PRICELESS! |
