| Author | Message | ||
     Chadleys1 |
They are fantastic-ly capable motorcycles, incredibly versatile, surprisingly durable, and as dependable as anything else out there, when properly treated. I LOVE the Buell XB12X Ulysses, and have ridden mine on plenty of dualsport worthy trails and dirt roads. If you own one you should be proud. The Ulysses is NOT, however, a dualsport. ... so please stop calling them that. | ||
| Hooper |
I'm with you, unless the definition of "dualsport" is slowly being redefined. The dude who rode his F1 across the Sahara treated the bike like a dualsport. I'd say that the Uly is the best of the bikes that form the "lower edge" of the dualsport world. If one were advising someone who wanted to get a "dualsport", one ought to mention the Uly as something to check out. (I know, there are people on here who have been on MUCH more wicked terrain, but...)    | ||
| Xbimmer |
I thought they were Sport Adventure bikes... Dual Sports have one cylinder and big gas tanks, right?  | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
They ARE dual sports. You just have to not suck to be able to use the off road portion of the capabilities. If you need a 21" front tire and knobbies to be able to go off road, you do not have the skills to use the Uly off road. | ||
| Rocketsprink |
I agree. Not dual sport. To big and heavy in my opinion. Buell never billed them as a dual sport. Graded fire roads are not what I consider dual sport area's. Let me see ya take it through some nice loose sand and gravel and jumps. Deep mud. Major water crossings. Never have seen one in the Baja 1000. It wouldn't make it. Stop trying to turn it into something it isn't. Nice to say that your fellow riders have crappy skills. | ||
| Buelldualsport |
You call it a Tomato, I'll call it a Tomato'. Buells to Alaska ALCAN 5000 2010 | ||
| Treadmarks |
From wikipedia: A dual-sport, colloquially known as "dualie" or an "on-off road bike" is a type of street-legal motorcycle that is designed for both on and off-road use. Popular dual-sport models include the BMW GS series, KTM Adventure series, Kawasaki KLR, Suzuki DRZ and V-Strom, Honda XL, Yamaha XT and many more. Design A dual-sport motorcycle compromises the light weight and off-road capabilities of the typical dirt bike in order to offer a safer, more comfortable ride on the road and comply with regulations that affect street motor vehicles. Thus Dual-sports have all necessary components for street homologation such as turn signals, speedometer, mirrors, as well as safety, comfort and convenience components which may include a anti-lock braking system, luggage, more comfortable seats, auxiliary lighting, and other optional items. A dual-sport is often conceptualized as a street-evolved dirt machine, although recently several manufacturers, especially those who usually do not compete in the dirt-bike market (for example Buell with the Ulysses XB12X and Ducati with the Multistrada), have followed an opposite trend. The offroad heritage of these bikes is reflected most prominently in its suspension, which offers more travel than a street bike. Other features common to off-road bikes, such as Handguards and wheel covers (mudcovers) usually appear in these models. The tires fitted in dual-sports are also a compromise, offering deeper treads than a street bike, while lacking the knobbed surface of dirt tires. This compromise offers a fairly good road performance as well as superior dirt handling over normal road tires, although other tire trade-offs are available. Other types of Dual-Sports When a dual-sport bike is fitted for long distance travel, with accessories such as oversized tanks, luggage compartments, and other distance-oriented gear they are often referred to as "adventure" bikes, offering limited touring capabilities, superior to that of the average motorcycle, but less than a full fledged tourer such as the Honda Goldwing series. Enduro motorcycles can also be dual-sports, if they are street legal. These motorbikes are generally speaking between the average dual-sport and a true off-road motorcycle. A supermoto (also known as a supermotard or motard) is typically a converted motocross bike with less suspension travel, smaller front and rear wheel wheel (typically 17" at both ends), road tires and an oversized front brake designed to be primarily run on asphalt. When made street legal, these bikes may also be considered to be a type of dual sport. In this case, these motorbikes could be seen as somewhere between a sport bike and a "true" dual-sport. | ||
| Khelton |
They are fine "offpavement", as in onto dirt roads but to me "offroad" mean trails..on which they are geared too high, clutch won't take it, spin the tire too much, and it would be nice if it had engine braking for the steep , slow downhills. For dirt roads, they are fine. | ||
| Chadleys1 |
Cool photos, Hooper. The reason for my earlier post is to help Uly riders not appear ignorant in a public forum, to real dualsport riders, by referring to their bikes as dualsports. It doesn't make the bike any less that it is not a true dualsport bike, I am just trying to help our Uly guys not appear uneducated. "rode it like a dualsport" = O.K. "rode my dualsport"(referring to Uly) = not O.K. How you ride a bike and what you use it for, does not change what it is. Fat Bastard, maybe you are trying to be humorous ? ... so I will not respond to that. | ||
| Chadleys1 |
For the record -- I enjoy seeing the photos and reports of Uly's being ridden LIKE dualsport bikes. I am crazy for that, the gnarlier the better. That is the coolest. Post more. Videos ? That video that made the rounds of the guy racing a HD Sportster on a motocross track is one of my favorite videos of all time. | ||
| Nutsosane |
Chadley, I whole heartedly agree. Thank you for sticking your neck out. NUTS | ||
| Buelldualsport |
"A rose by any other name is still a rose" William Shakespear (I think) Buells to Alaska ALCAN 5000 2010 | ||
| Chadleys1 |
Treadmarks (love your off road posts, by the way, since your first) That comes from Wikipedia ? Yep, I checked. That is the most current dictionary out there, so I can't argue with that. This quote is hard for me to swallow. "Enduro motorcycles can also be dual-sports, if they are street legal. These motorbikes are generally speaking between the average dual-sport and a true off-road motorcycle." Does that mean that in current public opinion that a dualsport motorcycle is not a true off road bike ? Weird. I guess the main idea of my post now becomes; "The definition of dualsport is changing." It stings a little, and though I disagree, I don't suppose arguing with Wikipedia will get me anywhere but frustrated. Buell - dualsport. hmmmmmmmm | ||
| Chadleys1 |
Thanks Nutsosane I still stand by my earlier posts. I understand that as times change, so does the public's perception of things, such as the apparent evolution of the term "dualsport." | ||
| Johnboy777 |
Terminology is in the eye of the rider. Here's a Yamaha R1 dual-sport. Enjoy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iITomfFclpM . | ||
| Treadmarks |
After spending the afternoon with Miamiuly back road blasting yesterday, I am more inclined to believe the Uly can be ridden in a dual sport fashion, better and faster than quite a few other dual sports.     I know, a little mud from deep azz holes does not a dual sport make, but since wikipedia is on my side today, I'll stand by it. Besides, my body feels like it rode in a dual sport rally yesterday. | ||
| Red_chili |
By the same standard the GS is also not a dualsport - at least since the oilheads. And yes I have owned a couple of GSs. | ||
| Bearly |
I'm going to agree with Chadley on this. I've had a few real dual sport bikes. One difference that I've notice from my Uly (which I could not be without!) is that a Dual sport doesn't mind coming down from fairly high altitudes. Let me "splain". Dual sports are more easily loaded with things for a long off road. They have places to tie off packs and bags like the Uly. Most have longer travel suspensions. But the difference that I'm talking about here is the ability to jump. The Uly doesn't really like coming down from more than a few feet before the suspension goes full travel to catch it's own weight much less having stuff in the bags and or packed on it. I've ended up in the air a few feet over the occasional rural small bridges that are around here (and that I know are there) and Uly just doesn't do to well with that. The Uly also seems to bottom easily over even large ruts and holes. One would like to loft the front tire over larger holes but it is made more difficult without a large knobby tire. I can't imagine dancing the back tire off of a series of two foot woops that dual sports do at speed. 6.5 inches of suspension travel is just not enough for 424lbs. IMHO. Legal notice All highly speculative. All views here are the sole guess of Bear B. Lemley. All statements are fictional in nature until proven otherwise by a higher authority and have no basis in fact. Statements above do not represent the opinions of Buell Motorcycles USA, WWW.BadWeatherBikers.Com or any one else that could take litigation against me. All statements will be retracted immediately upon the slightest opinion from anyone else to the contrary and Bear will be held harmless against all verbal and physical abuse by Badweb members and Buell Motorcycles USA staff and employees. I'm not worthy. | ||
| Treadmarks |
Some examples of different types of dual sports, by By Tom Niemela: So What Is The Best Dualsport Bike? By Tom Niemela Wow, that's a tough question and it depends on what you want to do with your bike. From the web, let me present an example of three scenarios: 1. Rider #1 wants a bike for commuting that he can also ride around on fire roads and on an occasional trail. He guesses that it's to be used 90% street and 10% dirt. The best bike for this rider would be a default dualsport bike from the manufacturer, which could include anything from a Honda 250XL to a BMW GS1100. There is a plethora of bikes in this range that work great such as the Suzuki DR650, Kawasaki KLR650, Yamaha XT600, BMW 650 and KTM 620 Adventure. The longer the commute, the bigger the bike. If the commute is only a few miles, then a 250 would fit the bill. The DR350 Suzuki is a great, popular mid-sized bike that will do everything nicely too. Lengthy commutes lean toward the bigger bikes, but the off-road performance is less. 2. Rider #2 wants a bike for commuting but he also wants it to be a competent dirt bike. He's a pretty serious dirt rider but can only afford one bike. He guesses that it's to be used 75% street and 25% dirt. This rider considers commuting as something that is necessary, but wants his one bike to be able to keep up on the trail. Options in this range are the KTMs, and modified XRLs, DRSs, and KLXs. 3. Rider #3 has no interest in commuting. He wants a hardcore dirt bike that is barely street legal. Why? With land being closed everywhere by environmental extremists, it's getting harder to find long, dirt-only loops and he needs to ride on the pavement to connect trails. He guesses that it's to be used 5% street and 95% dirt. This bike is typically a dirt bike that is modified to be street legal. Common bikes for this are (but not limited to) 4-stroke enduro bikes like the KTM EXCs, XRs, WRs, KLXs, and DRs. You just can't go wrong with something like an XR400 Honda and a Baja Design street-legal kit. I had an XR600 Honda that worked flawless, but that's a bit bigger of a machine than most would like. Many people make Kawasaki 200KDXs street legal and love 'em. So as you can see, ALL dualsport bikes are the best, if that's what works best for you! Personally I like the challenge of a bulldog, hardcore AA trail on my XR650, but I also like just cruising the back gravel roads on my BMW GS. Just get me off the tarmac! | ||
| Reepicheep |
I was riding the KLR-250 for a while last night... until it overheated again  . Anyway, I was riding along route 350, near the Little Miami, and saw an interesting path. Banged a left, and followed this little goat trail, which included bouncing over a couple fallen trees (6"-8"). Went about 500 yards in, saw some bigger trees that I didn't want to jump without my knobbies and without a bike I didn't know was running, so I had to jump off and grab the rear end and drag it 180 degrees to head back out. If it can't do that, I would say it's an adventure bike, not a dual sport. And note by that criteria, I am not even sure the KLR-650 is a dual sport... it probably could be, but I don't know if it would be any fun. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
My comments were made mostly in jest. "Dual Sport" isn't a hard category. It's a soft marketing term. A Speed Triple and the XR1200 are both "standards", but I don't think there is a person here who would say that they are duplicates of one another. I'm a long standing member on ADVRider. They, of all people, would know what a dual sport is. The Uly is in "Beasts" rather than "Road Warriors". There is no hard formula for what makes a bike a "dual sport" or a street bike. Between the X and the XT, the XT is much less of a "dual sport" than is the Uly. Same with the CityX. Does that prevent folks from taking them competently "off pavement"? No. I frequently take my bike "off pavement", but I don't take it on deep muddy single track. I could, but I don't. Wrong tool for that job. Only slightly more capable for that job would be a GS or a VStrom. Taking either of these bikes on single track in deep mud would be taxing and difficult for most. They are giant, heavy bikes. Why are these called "dual sports" but a Uly isn't given that their prowess is only slightly better in the really nasty stuff. Wouldn't that mean that there are various grades of "off road" or "off pavement"? It isn't just street and not street. What about dirt road? What about logging roads? What about hard pack logging trails? You simply can't make a sweeping statement that a Uly isn't "dual sport" given that the definition of what makes a bike "off pavement" worthy is so murky. What if the Uly had a 19" or 21" front wheel and a 160 rear tire and you could put knobbies on it? Would that make it a "dual sport"? With the low center of gravity, the Uly would be better than a VStrom. What if you don't NEED a 19" or 21" front tire and knobbies to be able to ride competently where a VStrom does? Wouldn't that make the discussions more about the rider than the bike? What do we make of the recent move in "dual sports"? The Versys, the Uly, the Multstrada, the Tiger? All appear to be working toward a more street biased bike with "off pavement" capabilities. Would it seem that even though a bike has a 19" front wheel and is capable of having knobbies mounted on it, that most of the owners never take them on the really technical off road areas that is being held up as the standard for what a "dual sport" is or isn't? It's the same for "sport utility" vehicles. In the beginning, most were VERY off road capable. People bought them with the idea that they MIGHT take them off road. When people didn't take them off road, buyers gravitated toward more civil, "street biased" vehicles. The excess capabilities, the capacity in excess of use, compromised the primary use of the vehicle. Why would you compromise the ride and handling of a bike you ride 90% on street with a larger front wheel and "off pavement" rubber? You'll never use that off road capability, AND you will end up with a bike that has lesser handling capabilities than a similar bike with a higher street bias. How many VStrom owners have EVER taken their bike off road? How many GS owners have EVER taken their bike off road? Of those who have taken their bike "off pavement", how many of them have taken their bike on the single track, loose sand/mud, rocky terrain held out as the standard for a "dual sport"? I'd say that less than 10% of the time are these bikes being used in an "off pavement" fashion and probably only 1% or less of the time is it being used in the really gnarly single track. So which is better, to have a bike with the capability to go into more technical of road areas that you never go and compromise the ride everywhere else, OR to have a bike that isn't designed to go where you would never take it anyway and is superior in it's street design where you ride it 90% of the time? I don't ride my Uly where 99% of the VStrom and GS owners don't ride either. I do ride where 10% of the GS and VStrom owners ride "off pavement", and we all ride where 90% of the riding is done. On pavement. On my last forray "off pavement", the VStrom couldn't keep up with the two Uly's. | ||
| Jwnsc |
MCN classifies the Uly as an Open Dualsport. So there. They must be right because they don't accept advertising. Seriously, the problem with Chadleys1's perspective is he's using a subjective design-only definition of "dualsport" that totally ignores real world function and use by the bike owner. My first bike was a Honda CB160 that had low pipes and street tires. I rode it quite successfully 75% of the time off-road across the Mojave Desert because that's where I lived when I owned it. There are many things Honda could have done to make it a better performing bike off-road, just as there are many things they could do to make an XR650R a better street bike. That doesn't keep people from plating them and riding on the street. I think actual use rather than some amorphous, subjective definition has more real world significance. | ||
| Chadhargis |
I agree....it's NOT a dual-sport. It's an "adventure tourer". I have taken my Uly down some dirt and gravel roads. And right behind me was a guy on an FZ1. Is THAT a dual sport too?? Just because you ride it on a gravel or dirt road, that doesn't make it a dual sport. A true dual sport is a bike that is EASY to ride off road. The Uly is not. | ||
| Jb2607 |
Just back from a 7000 mile ride. Lot of gravel/dirt/water/rock road. 22 mile down hill/4000 foot drop to the Colorado River on the Hualapi Indian reservation. Remembering not to overdrive the front wheel in the soft sand/gravel and numerous water crossings... accelerate thru as you remember your youthful dirtbike days. Now uphill... 22 miles of rooster tails as overdriving the rear wheel often turns out to be outlandish fun. Next... 120+ of washboard dirt/gravel rutted road to Tuweep overlook at the N. Rim of the Grand Canyon. Difficult... No, just put in the time and deal with the heat as the view makes it all worth while. Next... Ophir pass in Colorado... remember?... they call it the easy one. 20 miles of ROCK he**. Looking no more than 10 feet in front of you as you zig then zag around rocks, from golfball to softball to basketball size, knowing you cannot stop... you must keep the RPMS up, cannot stall it. When thru you look back and ask yourself... what was I thinking? Now on to Cinnamon pass... finally after the first few tight rutted switchbacks just pass Animas Forks, an off road trail that the ULY can handle without being forced into it. As everyone else can attest... the ULY is geared too tall to be comfortable on difficult/slow terrain... Gear 'er down in 1st and 2nd. Put a 19" on the front and somehow lower the seat a tad more to help lower the center of gravity. Let me transgress here for a moment... FUEL MILEAGE... out west at 6000, 8000 feet or so, I got 50+ to 60+ MPG and then downhill thru Kansas with the wind behind me, it reverted back to 44MPG. What gives? Speed... OH YEAH, 110mph into Roswell NM and smooth as a billiard table, which was plenty fast for me, but the ol' ULY kept teasing me by letting me know that she had more speed if I dared. Is it a dual sport off road adventure bike... NO. It can be if forced but she is not comfortable below 15 mph, but is a force to be recognized on the highway. She did all I asked of her, so bottom line I cannot complain... she truly led me on an adventure. Maybe the XT would be better as it is a tad lower and accentuates what she is better at and that is COMFORTABLE touring. One more thing... Seen Annie (Ann-Margret) in Branson and the next morning drove the final 800 miles home in one day. BUTT heaven as I felt fine when I arrived home at 1am. Avon Distanzias were mounted before I left... KOYO rears, Kaoko throttle lock, all three hard bags, triple tail bag, oil was Mobil 1 15/50 synthetic, filters were Syntech, and used the short wind screen. Seen one ULY the whole time and that was a HD dealer in Joplin, MO. He had the slower orange one. Also spent several days in and around Vegas in the EXTREME heat... NO pinging and other than keeping my right thigh a bit away from the bike no issues. | ||
| Red_chili |
I am a longtime dirt, and then dualsport, rider. Like, 40 years long. I remember some of the rigs that created most of the trails enjoyed today. BSA 441 Victors, Triumph 650 Scramblers, the odd Harley. These were not as competent offroad as the Uly, yet they were as good as it got. I currently ride an XR650R modified to be street legal, and a KDX220. The XR is not as dirt worthy as the KDX, at least in the tight rocky woods. It will beat you. But it will do it. The KDX, though it is plated, barely has competence on the street though I *could* ride it to work, and enjoy it if I stayed off the highway. The XR is absolutely a dirt-oriented dualsport. The KDX more so. I'd rather have the KDX in the aforementioned whoops. The Uly can be taken in some amazing places. So can the GS. I can tell you that the 1150 GS I owned felt more ungainly off road than the Uly. Yet GSs regularly find themselves in some wild rides. I took the Uly up Cascade Creek Road near Idaho Springs, CO, which is steep, loose, and is covered with babyhead rocks. It struggled, and it took a dirt nap, but it did it. I would consider that road to be just beyond the Uly's comfort zone. I would have been reluctant to take the 1150GS there. My old modified R80 G/S, no problem. But I would certainly rather ride the Uly to get there. The Uly is in the broad category of dualsport, on the street end, like a Toyota Tundra is in the broad category of off-road 4x4. The Uly is one end of the category, the KDX the other, and the XR is 2/3 right of center. Just choose your route appropriately, and choose the appropriate tool. | ||
| Buelldualsport |
You say Tomato, I say Tomato' Buells to Alaska ALCAN 5000 2010 | ||
| Johnboy777 |
Fatty: ""There is no hard formula for what makes a bike a "dual sport" or a street bike."" Good point! I think, IMHO, the Uly would make a better adventure bike than a GS if it weren't for two things: A. Fuel Capacity B. Tire Options The GS Adventure has a bigger fuel capacity and more off-road-ish-type tire options (e.g., TKC 80's). Hell, its the rider, NOT (so much) the bike, anyway! . | ||
| Court |
I'm not sure anyone ever claimed the Uly to be a "dual sport" or dirt bike. I'd never buy one to ride dirt, would never hesitate to take one into the dirt and I'd never do a cross country ride on a KTM 250MX either. . . just me perhaps. | ||
| Miamiuly |
Well.. Treadmarks and I did have to pass a few 4 wheelers yesterday, they were just putting around but it was still funny to me. We did gravel, pot holed and whooped limestone sand roads and quite a few grey marl puddles with gravel. I don't call it a dual sport but it does a great imitation. Deep mud is about all that makes me shy away, but as Tread and I were saying yesterday, you wouldn't want to stick a KLR650 in the mud either. And I'm sure I was more comfy than the KLR rider I saw on the highway yesterday. | ||
| Johnboy777 |
""Deep mud is about all that makes me shy away, but as Tread and I were saying yesterday, you wouldn't want to stick a KLR650 in the mud either. "" It's all about the tires. I ran my KLR650 through all kinds of mud with a good set of 'knobbies' ... slip sliddin' away, give it lots of wrist, and you're good to go with the right (non-DOT) tires. Just sayin' . |
