| Author | Message | ||
     Electraglider_1997 |
I've been saying this for a while now. Scooter sales are through the roof and both Harley and Buell haven't even got them in the lineup. The writing is on the wall, people are sick to death of spending a significant amount of their paychecks on fuel and 100 mpg scooters are in. Fact is, that once a brand captures a person with a sale, that person becomes loyal to that brand. So a first time two wheel buyer gets a Jap, Korean, or Chinese scooter because Harley Corp hasn't got the sense to offer one, and then it becomes harder to lure that person over to the Harley or Buell brand from that point on. If you think that is crap, then just notice how loyal we've become to Buell. Most of us wouldn't even think of betraying the Buell brand but if you want to buy your son or daughter a scooter for college where will you go... to the other brands. Maybe Harley is going to get the MV Agusta/Cagiva brand to build scooters since we all know that the Italians know how to build beautiful quality scoots. http://media.www.dailyiowan.com/media/storage/pape r599/news/2008/07/14/Metro/Dealers.Finding.It.Diff icult.To.Keep.Motorcycles.And.Scooters.In.Stock-33 90600.shtml?reffeature=htmlemailedition Come to think of it, Harley IMHO would be very smart to offer Italian scooters in all their kazillion dealerships here in the U.S.of A. | ||
| Slowride |
I hear ya brother! I purchased my 13 year old son a Lifan 150 enduro last week for $250. I went to 3 off brand chinese shops this weekend looking for parts. 2 of the 3 shops were completely new sales only and I had to be educated in Indianese just to be able to get that far. The last shop though was fantastic and they had new Zongshin and Roketa bikes that I would spend my money on. I might even go back and get the wife the all pink and chrome 150 scooter on the floor for 1899.00. It is something to think about. | ||
| Froggy |
At work, the bikes all park up front, and it used to be my bike and a scoot, now we have been overrun as there is my bike lost in a mass of about a dozen scoots + random jap cruiser. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
I wrote a few weeks ago about riding this 250 Vespa scooter while visiting my folks in Iowa City. It was water-cooled and it was of very fine quality. The owner has a number of bikes including a couple of scooters and Harleys. I can't imagine (though it might be kind of fun) touring on a scooter but for just tooling around town, you can't beat the economy. I'm betting that insurance is dirt cheap on a scooter especially if all you got was the minimum liabilities. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
The thing about scooters that I think is just great, is that they are very unintimidating. You get thousands of folks riding a scooter that would never dare try riding, let alone buying a motorcycle. Next thing you know, that motorcycle doesn't seem so intimidating anymore. It's a win-win for us motorcyclists seeing as there is strength in numbers. Pretty soon those lame-assed pecker-headed politicians are courting the biker population, giving us some respect for once. Wake up Erik and Ziemer! | ||
| Treadmarks |
I looked at a honda metro this weekend. 110 mpg.  | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
I'll make a prediction. Within the next 5 years, our rodes will be swarming with scooters just like in the rest of the world. If Buell and Harley can't see this then they are just plain blind. And since scooters are pretty much an in-town low mileage vehicle, HOG/Buell should seriously consider an electric scooter capable of 50+ miles per charge. | ||
| Red_chili |
Works fine solo. But if I want to go out to eat with my wife, she has to buy one too, and now the mileage is the same as my Uly. The dang things feel spooky with nothing for my knees to grab. | ||
| Ratbuell |
The only thing that scares the crap out of me about scooters is, they're so slow. Around here, if you don't do 50 in town and 75 on the highway, you're a hood ornament. Scooters are the rocks in the river; everyone has to find a way to get around them. HD/B need to come up with a scooter-ish vehicle that will move with the flow of traffic, for about three grand or less. The Blast is a great vehicle - I can't keep them in stock - but unfortunately the parts content and engineering that went into it (it's a "little sportbike", not a "big scooter") price it out of the entry/scooter range. | ||
| Court |
You should see what is happening in NYC. | ||
| Snowscum |
The oil bubble will burst soon...... | ||
| Slowride |
Slow? The 150 enduro I picked up will do 70 no problem with my fat 270lbs. The scooters that I have seen that are the Roketa 150's will run 80 on the highway and are big enough to carry two people. LOL, my wife picked out a solid pink one and told my son that when she went back to school (she's a teacher) that she would be shuttling him on the scoot back n forth. My son about died and started beggin her to get a red one. hahahaha!!! Seriously though..... they have become a viable option as the enduro is getting 80mpg and the 150 scooters are claiming the same 80mpg. | ||
| 08uly |
Piaggio parent of Vespa is developing Hybrid scoots... 140 MPG supposedly   --- 08Uly Uly Data Page  | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Court, What's going on in NYC? | ||
| Red_chili |
The oil bubble will burst soon...... I hope so. I've said as much. All bubbles burst. But with Iran's sabre-rattling, and consumption by China and India, 'soon' may be a relative statement, and so may 'burst'. I doubt we will ever see petrol below $3/gal. again. the enduro is getting 80mpg ... Ya know, you gave me an idea there. Instead of ever selling my son's CRF230 that he has lost interest in, just motard it! Way safer than a scooter. With some Chili mods, will work two-up too. In a leisurely fashion. | ||
| Red_chili |
Piaggio parent of Vespa is developing Hybrid scoots... Now, a hybrid sportbike would be worthy of Erik's skills.... I would buy one! Need a real-world tester, huh, do ya, do ya, huh???  | ||
| Jlnance |
Within the next 5 years, our rodes will be swarming with scooters just like in the rest of the world. If Buell and Harley can't see this then they are just plain blind. Being able to see the writing on the wall and being able to make money from it aren't exactly the same thing.  | ||
| California |
The oil bubble will burst soon......Even if the bubble "bursts", how far down do you think it would go? I too believe there will be an adjustment, but I'm thinking it will adjust back to around 135 a barrel. That still gets us high fuel costs, and as most of us know, once people discover the joys and freedom of riding, whether on a scoot or a real motorcycle, lots of people will not go back. I think the age of scooters has arrived in the US, and about time! Yes, commuting on the freeways in lots of major metromesses does not make sense, but there are lots of places that freeways are not an issue. My personal recommendation to anyone considering a scooter, , , It must have a cruising speed of at least 55 mph, or don't bother. (Message edited by california on July 14, 2008) | ||
| Jlnance |
Yes, commuting on the freeways in lots of major metromesses does not make sense Currently you're definitly correct. If 25% of the traffic ended up on scooters, things might change. | ||
| Wesman |
 Seems Harley already went down the scooter road....I think it failed because the cognescenti refused to ware the Harley designated headgear. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
The fact of the matter is that scooters are selling like hot cakes. Doesn't really matter if a few of you have a problem with them because all the facts say scooters are going out the door faster than they can keep them supplied. HOG/Buell needs to be part of the action. The Topper was not introduced when gas prices were out of sight. Everybody is feeling gas pains and not just FatBastard. | ||
| Red_chili |
Ramp up time for some new product would mean that unless this were already in the works, Buell would show up with a scooter just in time to miss the bubble. My vote would be something new, that no one is doing - hybrid sportbikes. | ||
| Etennuly |
My wife commutes eight miles to her work. She loves scootin' it on her Blast and using just over a gallon a week! Cycle World had a shoot out on econo bikes a couple of years ago. They included the Blast even though its list price was $400 over their limit on purchase price. It compared well with the scooters and small bikes that could commute on the interstate for short jaunts. It came in at 74 MPG and top speed of 82 mph. Better in both categories than some of the scooters. What the Blast needs is a set of lockable hard bags. | ||
| Alchemy |
Rode the Vectrix all electric scooter at Americade. Torque of an electric motor that will do 60 mph and go for about 60 miles on a charge in most cases. Recharge is something like 3-5 hours plugged into a standard outlet. No shifting and reversing the throttle will invoke regenerative braking and it actually goes in reverse if you need it. Electric motors on cycles are sporty and interesting and yield zero emissions. The weight is high at 510 lbs but it has a low CG and handles well. This could be interesting with some battery improvements and a lighter weight. | ||
| Court |
I could not agree more on the Blast. I captured a photo, a couple weeks ago, of a Blast and a limo sitting in front of one of NYC;s ritziest Park Ave addresses. Blasts are popping up (as are XB's) all over Gotham. Scooters are selling at the rate of 1,000/wk and kook like locusts on the streets. The key now is for the city to allow parking. I'd love to see them designate one or two spots in a block for motorcycles/scooters. The present $65/ticket scheme is too scary and bikes parked twinxt cars are doomed to knock overs (I've a great photo collection) We'll see. I see some big changes yielding opportunity. | ||
| Johnboy777 |
""The oil bubble will burst soon......"" Oil is not a static commodity - reserves are continually being depleted. Both China and India are basically where we were in the 1920's, and will continue to grow in terms of consumer growth (the expanding middle-class) and spending. China has over a billion people, many of which are looking to trade in their bikes for automobiles. Overall growth in world markets will negate any untapped reserves that we may have. It will always be a supply and demand situation; with demand outstripping supply as the world's reserves continue to dwindle. Oil is a finite resource, after all. I remember when gas was 29 cents per gallon - my god, when has the price of gas ever gone down? Next stop $8 per gallon. Overall, the increasing price of gas is a good thing (in the greater scheme of things) - it will certainly spur energy development in other areas. . | ||
| Court |
>>>>Oil is a finite resource, after all. So this whole thing with dinosaur bones, plants and stuff decaying and turning into petroleum is bogus? Oil, like Oxygen, is constantly being replenished. I, in 2005, predicted $5.00/gal by July 4th 2008 and I missed that. I was also saying $7.00/gal by Xmas this year and that's not happening. What will happen is that the United States of America will achieve a parity with the rest of the world. We're still cheaper than many places. At the same time the nut-cakes will be forced to give up the silly notion that Prius's and the current crop of electric cars are the answer. They'll learn you can't apply a 1940's solution. It was Albert Einstein who said:
We are a smart people . . . the world is benefiting from the way it has changed during the last 50 years. It used to be that I could be no smarter than the kids from Kansas I was sitting in a room with. Now, on any given day, I collaborate with people from around the world seamlessly. I suspect the solutions that will prove most effective are yet to be discovered and I revel in watching the kids in this lab I am sitting in here at Columbia (where a group stumbled on a thing called Nuclear Power) and suspect many folks have no idea how smart some of these folks are. Oil, in my sons' lifetime will be a fond memory. But, not because of conservation or an electric car. Call it a hunch . . . but then. . . I'm a construction worker. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Court - I'd love to see that Blast/limo photo if you get a chance. Might hush some of the poo-poo'ers here in my market, lol. | ||
| Johnboy777 |
""So this whole thing with dinosaur bones, plants and stuff decaying and turning into petroleum is bogus? Oil, like Oxygen, is constantly being replenished. "" Where to start? Oil and natural gas, are formed from organic material, taking (appox.) 10 to 300 or more million years. A. First, and most importantly, are you willing to wait 300 million years to re-new this resource,(if the circumstances which created it, could happen again)? B. Does the earth currently have the same amount of organic matter available with which to ultimately produce oil within 300 million years ago? C. Is the earth in the same position it was, climactically, 300 million years ago? Does it have the same type (and more importantly, quantity) of vegetation it did 300 million years ago? The earth is not continually producing petroleum (to the extent of past or current petroleum reserves, that is) - the earth is not a petroleum factory, if you will. Climate changes, ice ages, extinctions (both plant and animal) and the like have all done their part (upstream) to seeing to it that this petroleum producing process is not an ongoing one. The earth is not an oil pipeline. Sure, it's taking place, but not nearly on the same scale. The earth's ability to produce petroleum, for the most part, was as close to a singular (non-reaccuring) event as you can get. Don't forget, the weather that the world currently enjoys has only been around for 10,000 years or so. Cheers, John | ||
| Wesman |
+1 on the Blast being a better alternative than a 80cc scooter. That being said, I doubt that (other than re-badging a China scooter) HD could produce a scooter cheap enough to draw the non-motorcycling public in the door. They will be looking at the numbers and $8000 for a scooter does not offset your saving in gas with your SUV. The scooters limited usability makes it only practical for cities. The folks in the cities who will be willing to put up with th inconveince of a scooter will be on the lower side of the economic scale and be buying Pep Boys specials anyway. The HD real motorcyclists, (Buell, King and Glide riders) will correctly fail to see the economy of buying an HD scoot that gets 80 mpg when their big rigs get 50-55 mpg and are safer. We know the chrome helmet guys would never be caught dead on a scoot. Personally, I would love a Burgman, but I understand the idea of spending $8000 on 2 wheeled transportation. Top that off with the fact the Victory has the high end scooter market cornered with the Vision, I see no future for HD in the scooter market. Willy G .... you can send my check for the economic analysis to my home in NJ. (or just send a nice Road King |
