| Author | Message | ||
     Red_chili |
FINALLY got around to fiddling with my ECM. Had the '07 airbox, built a Supertrapp pipe, gained a slight flat spot ~5K, with a nice hit above that. Figgered my pipe design was to blame and it needed tuning. Waiting for a round tuit. I finally got a round tuit. Oh man, why did I wait?!? I loaded the '07 ECM, and initially was less than happy - wouldn't idle for crap (yes, TPS done). Also picked up a ping just off idle, for the first time in its life. Bummer, I screwed it up. So I did some more reading. I took a hard look at the '07 tables. I noticed some pretty hefty advance just off idle, about the right throttle setting. So I backed that off a skoash. I tried Treadmark's Square Idle 76F/71R, and it idled much better, but still sounded like the cylinders were out of tune from each other. Cold starting was a slight challenge unless I turned my idle up to 1100 or so. I backed off the square idle to 73F/71R, sweetened the cold start enrichment a skoash, and set the idle for 950 hot. Set the AFV to 95 just for giggles (5K feet in the air, up here). The test ride was wonderful. Fired it up this morning, and only one word describes my commute: SCHWEEEEEEEEETness. It is as Erik intended. No flat spots. No ping. Flat powerband. Great sound. I don't miss my Ducati nearly as much.  THANK you, Gunter. And Joel for making the cable. (Message edited by Red_Chili on June 24, 2008) | ||
| Treadmarks |
Glad it worked for you Red. It is amazing how much more fun the bike is to ride when the fueling and timing issues are addressed. If you haven't already, check your timing inside the timing cover. We have been finding a few of them that were pinging advanced about 3 degrees from the factory. | ||
| Brakes2late |
I've got a modified airbox and a jardine pipe and have been playing around with the fuel maps. I've got it running great with no flat spots but would be curious to see someone elses fuel maps. According to the ECMSpy manual the rear cylinder should have a slightly fatter fuel map than the front since it runs hotter. Both my stock ecm and race ecm maps for my 06 Uly are just the opposite. What gives? | ||
| Red_chili |
Depends on which cell you stare at. Some are leaner, some are fatter. I'm running the '07 map, with timing and idle tweaked. To be honest, since I've never pinged until yesterday, I've not been motivated to even check the timing. No pings now. The advance spike in the TPS 12 row kinda mystifies me - and was the source of my new (and brief) ping (in combo with the '07 fuel map). I went from 5,5,12,27 to 2,3,9,25. I could fiddle with the 2,3 and take them back to 4,4 or something, but it runs pretty darn well now. | ||
| Growl |
I would enjoy seeing a photo of your Supertrapp setup. | ||
| Brakes2late |
Here's my current fuel maps...I bought the Race ECM off the BadWeb and then made some slight mods based on the flat spots and surging I had at 3K and 4K. http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll202/Brakes2la te/EasyCapture1.jpg | ||
| Chadhargis |
I've got ECM Spy and the cable, but I haven't messed with it yet. Does it allow you to upload saved maps? If so, we need to start a map repository. Why is each of us re-inventing the wheel every time. I have a Power Commander on my Gixxer, and if you go to the website, you can find a map for your intake and exhaust options and load it. I have an '06 with the Race ECM and '07 airbox that shakes like a wet dog at idle and hiccups off idle at time. Very rough running anywhere below 2500rpm. I've reset the TPS several times and the idle is set to factory spec. (Message edited by chadhargis on June 24, 2008) | ||
| Red_chili |
Chad, that is totally fixable. Yes, ECMSpy allows you to upload the EEPROM, or just the fuel/timing maps. I thought a repository might be a good idea. Every bike and pipe are a bit different (especially, it seems, the Uly, for some reason there are a lot of variances from what I gather), but if the changes are conservative, one starts with the '07 maps, and one doesn't start cutting fuel in a bunch of cells, it should be low risk. The best, of course, is dyno time. Don't happen to have one of those...  I used to be rather good at seat-of-the-pants carb jetting, and since I am only tweaking a factory map just a bit... meh. I'll take that chance. One thing that did contribute to a good idle is Treadmark's Square Idle mod to the maps, though I went less rich on the front cylinder. If you go too rich, if I understand Gunter's comments correctly, you can throw off the AFV if you let it sit idling for a long time? | ||
| Johnboy777 |
""I have an '06 with the Race ECM and '07 airbox that shakes like a wet dog at idle and hiccups off idle at time. Very rough running anywhere below 2500rpm. I've reset the TPS several times and the idle is set to factory spec. "" Hey Chadhargis , have you tried Treadmark's Square Idle? +1 on sharing EEPROM's John | ||
| Red_chili |
"I would enjoy seeing a photo of your Supertrapp setup." No sooner done than said. Uh... I think I got that backwards... http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/142 838/291524.html} | ||
| Johnboy777 |
BTW, there are a few of us here that have Xopti's custom EEPROM. LINK: http://xoptiinside.com/ . | ||
| Maximum |
I would be cautious about uploading complete EEPROM's from someone you don't know and trust. I would not mind using ECMSpy to see the adjustments that others are doing to their maps, but I would probably just use that knowledge to tweak my maps (as opposed to just burning the entire eeprom). | ||
| Treadmarks |
I would be cautious about uploading complete EEPROM's from someone you don't know and trust. Just remember to save your factory or current eeprom before making changes or swapping. Then you can always go back. We (fellow Buellers from buelletinboard) spent last Saturday with Xopti during a summer fun tune in. It is amazing the things one can do with ECMspy. Make sure all other variables are in order (timing,TPS, AFV reset...) Make small changes and try it. Check EGO...adjust accordingly. | ||
| Red_chili |
I did a search, but any references to Xopti are pretty cryptic. (I suppose there is a reason for that - kinda like the RSS from the Netherlands). Do you send your ECM off to him, or does he send you a map based on your machine's setup? | ||
| Treadmarks |
He provides the base map/eeprom. You do the data log and send it back to him. He sends you a new map to upload, and data log again if you like. It sounded pretty complicated when he did mine, but last Saturday we did 5 bikes in a few hours. Was as easy as pie. Although he is not a site sponsor, yet...all the eeprom changes and data logging at the tune in was free. Since he did not profit from the tune in, we should be able to discuss it without being slapped by the mods. Every XB there got free service. ECMSpy walk through instructions. Drilled timing cover and replaced rivets with ss screws. Set timing straight up (a few were advanced). Set TPS Set Idle and Idle EGO. Data log and adjust fuel map and timing. Test ride and smile. | ||
| Maximum |
Wish I could have been there for that. Mike struggled with tuning my race pipe configured Uly, but I'm sure that it's A LOT easier in person! | ||
| Red_chili |
So it sounds like I need a PDA to do a decent data log, eh? BTW, I am a little fuzzy on the EGO correction. 'Splain it to me? | ||
| Maximum |
I do the data logging with a laptop in a back pack, it works fine. | ||
| Johnboy777 |
What I never understood is the logic behind resetting the AFV - it seems pointless to me, as the AFV will automatically reset itself based on pre-established parameters within the EEPROM and ones riding style, local elevation, and so on. Although, I think its good to know where it's is, occasionally. . | ||
| Treadmarks |
I did the data logging with my laptop in a backpack as well. Red, This is from Gemini on the BB: my method of idle adjustment. start by driving the bike and having it warm. then change the fuel map table. i make changes to the tps and rpm axis. like this. Attachment 1031 Attachment 1032also change idle closed loop enable to on. now reset your afv to 100% under the diagnosis tab. this will allow you to raise your tps to 14-15 so you can achive @ 1050 rpm at idle and still be in the bottom row and one cell to the right. another nice benifit to doing it in this method is the idle fluctuations will still be in one cell. this produces a smooth consistant idle. now start the bike. drive it for a very short distance. all you need is about part way through first gear. now come back to ecmspy and look at your ego correction in ecm runtime. this will show you the precentage of change that you need to apply to the new idle cell front and rear. if your ego is at 95% put ".95" in this block and press this buttom to apply. if it is 105% enter "1.05" This is a great thread on the subject. Start around page 12. | ||
| Red_chili |
Backpack works for me! The price is right. I'll have to read up on that. I know our O2 sensors are not terribly precise but the thought of installing a more precise one is unappealing. As I look at the EGO voltage and correction, I am led to believe that this is simply the O2 signal, and the ECM's calculations of correction which it uses to figure out the AFV. Am I close? If so, and if I have the idle set such that I get more correction at idle than at other places on the map, would I be correct in concluding I have set it too rich - and therefore only asking to be canceled, and to throw off the AFV for all the other cells as well? Am I close? Sure wish ECMSpy had more documentation. Seems like there are a LOT of options, and user-changeable flags and such. Fuel cut on decel, for instance. More besides. Lots of ways to go wrong - or right. | ||
| Red_chili |
Well, going off of EGO, I ended up at 71F/65R. The EGO correction was nice and flat through the RPM/throttle range. We'll see. It is still richer than averaging the stock '07 map for the idle cells, so this should be quite safe. TM, I tried your fat settings just for grins, and the dang thing could hardly idle! WAY rich for my bike. This is big fun. | ||
| Red_chili |
Now I just have to figure out how to keep my laptop from going into sleep mode when I close the cover. Seems like there was a setting in here somewhere... hellooooo? Are you there, little bit? I just wanna flip you, won't hurt at all...  (Message edited by Red_Chili on June 24, 2008) | ||
| Brakes2late |
There's usually some kind of "power management" option under "control panel". What kind of laptop do you have? | ||
| Ulyscol |
Will ECMspy work with the 2008 XB12X? I have been reading all the posts here about the beta patch and poor 08' mpg etc... I am getting low 30's out of my bike and I am ready to take the plunge and start tuning. | ||
| Red_chili |
Yes. | ||
| Red_chili |
Well, over the last couple of days, I noticed yet another benefit. I am running a RSS, which does help. But since fiddling with the mixture and timing, the bike is running noticeably cooler. The fan runs much less; in fact, on my ride in this morning (about 10 miles), it only kicked on when I hit the kill switch at work. It didn't do that except on very cold days in the winter, fall, or spring. Wow. Yesterday around 90* in rush hour, it kicked on about two miles from my house on the way home. | ||
| Johnboy777 |
Hey Red_chili, Exactly what did you change with regard to the timing...thanks | ||
| Red_chili |
You will notice some pretty hard advance just above idle in the CL region. I retarded that a few degrees, nothing draconian. Keep the transitions smooth in other words. I was pinging on partial throttle at 2-3K or so, which told me the map dialed in too much advance for the fuel/load. If you think about it, jumping from 0* to 12* to 27* right off of idle is a helluva jump. I made it 9* and 25*, and took the values at (TPS%) 12/800 and 12/1000 from 5 to 2 and 3 respectively. Ping gone, power excellent. (Message edited by Red_Chili on June 27, 2008) | ||
| Red_chili |
The bike just keeps running better and better. AFV is at 89%, most likely due to it being over 5,000 feet in the air (I have only richened the mix at square idle, and that much less than TM did given my intake, displacement, and exhaust differences, and have good correction factors when running CL in that range). No ping, nothing evil, no cough off of idle when the throttle is whacked (as long as the motor is warm), and most pleasant of all is reduced heat. Especially off the head pipes. I am running a custom SuperTrapp can that I made, and the '07 box (not yet the K&N but I may give that a go). I still had a slight flat spot at 4-5K, with a good hit coming at 5K-redline. I compared the fuel maps of the 2007 std. ECM that I am running (except for the timing less advanced above idle, and the TM square idle) with the race ECM mapping. Lo and behold, on the front cylinder ONLY (huh?) there is a rich spike right at 4K (in the CL region and just above for a given RPM). The race map has it leaner here. This is conjecture, but it seems sensible that BMC mapped the fuel to work with the exhaust valve, which is no longer a factor with my muffler. Why just the front? Dunno, but the O2 is only on the rear, so... Seemed intriguing and low risk, so I leaned it out a bit to more closely follow the race ECM. So far, so good. There seems to be less of a flat spot, and it runs wonderfully. Even power with a hard but evenly building, not abrupt, hit at 5K past redline. We'll see. Just remember, don't try this at home without consulting a professional, yadda yadda yadda... and keep your changes slight, changing one thing at a time and testing each change. Data logging would of course be more thorough, but hey, this is working, is quick and easy to do, and I can actually squeeze it in between honey-dos...  |
