| Author | Message | ||
     Hooper |
This is a great thread - guarantee you'll never see one like it on any of the other BadWeb forums(?). I like to give my foes two tickets to the gun show - watch out...they'll get ya'.  (My buddy's FBI gear doesn't fit me). (Message edited by hooper on June 13, 2008) | ||
| Dennis_c |
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| Khelton |
Kimber is my friend..but don't carry...........................yet | ||
| Dennis_c |
I'am packing a lot of heat on my right leg 08 Uly  | ||
| M_singer |
The "Never pull it unless you are going to use it" mentality makes no sense to me. If you are faced with a threat to your life and the mere drawing of your piece neutralizes that threat then there is no need to shoot. If the statement is changed to never pull it unless you are "prepared" to used it, then I would agree. One should never bluff with a weapon. On the other hand...never bite when a simple growl will do. | ||
| Crusty |
Anybody packing heat? I'll be packing my electric vest; does that count as heat? | ||
| Gme |
Every chance I get! http://competitionshootingstuff.com/ Gary | ||
| Johnboy777 |
The "Never pull it unless you are going to use it" mentality makes no sense to me. If you are faced with a threat to your life and the mere drawing of your piece neutralizes that threat then there is no need to shoot. If the statement is changed to never pull it unless you are "prepared" to used it, then I would agree. One should never bluff with a weapon. On the other hand...never bite when a simple growl will do. ""the mere drawing of your piece neutralizes that threat "" Drawing a weapon will NEVER neutral a threat. Neutralizing a threat is what happens after you draw, put your finger on the trigger, then pull the trigger until the threat is neutralized. Personally, I would never draw a weapon that I did not intend to use. Once my finger is on the trigger, I am fully committed, mentally, to carrying out the action, I am at the point of no return. Civilian, law enforcement and military, all have very differing parameters for the use of deadly force. Personally, I am only concerned with civilian use. For civilian use, IMHO, deadly force is a last resort. 1st, get out of the situation any way possible - run, whatever you have to do. The weapon is only drawn when its use is intended. The average civilian gunfight lasts less that 7 seconds, and is, on average, 3 - 10 feet in distance. Its up close and personal, and more often than not, the weapon is fired single-handed. There again, there are exceptions, but for the most part, this is accurate. If you are practicing with a handgun at at range greater than 15' and using two hands to hold and aim your weapon, you are going against all of the evidence of civilian gunfights. There again, that's your call. Lastly, stress -the stress of the situation- changes eveything. You are operating at less that HALF of your capacity in a gunfight situation. I would only use a weapon to save my life or the life of a loved one - and only with the knowledge that even if I am right at the time, nevertheless, I may spend the rest of my life in prison because of my action. LINK: http://www.gunsite.com/courses/pistol.html . | ||
| Petereid |
Springfield XD 9 Sub-compact here. Small and light and effective at close range | ||
| Etennuly |
The new Uly XB12XP will probably be showing up in camo in a little while with an "M" suffix. Wonder what fitments it will have and can we get any for civilian use. I think a .50 cal tri-pod mounted on the bars would be the ultimate answer to "packing heat" on the Uly! | ||
| Spicerack |
I carry a .45 ACP XD in all but the hottest weather, when a Beretta .22 goes in my pocket. Anybody have a suggestion for a good holster for riding? I carry on my hip in a variety of paddle/IWB/belt slide holsters. none of these conceal well with motorcycle gear on though. | ||
| Jrockne |
Shoulder Holster is best, just get the jacket a size larger or make sure it fits without showing the piece. | ||
| Xbimmer |
This stuff is all moot anyway with a Left-loaded Congress and a pretty good chance of Hopebama making it in November, kiss your interpretation of our 2nd Amendment rights goodbye. We'll collectively pay for the ignorance of others. Ask the Brits and the Aussies... That being said, I ride a Buell XB12X Ulysses in Barricade Orange, and a Kel Tec Su-16 or a Ruger PC4 will fit nicely in a gear bag across the seat, thank you... | ||
| Nevrenuf |
this is one uly rider that never has and probably never will own a gun cause the impatient german hard headedness side of me would probably pull it out on every stupid motorist on the road, and frankly, i just don't think i would fit in that well with the local prison population. anymore when i get passed someone that's done something stupid i just shake my head and get out of their way as quick as possible. you never know what that person is capeable of doing next. | ||
| Brazeau |
Great insights, all. I ended up posting this and then had to run out. Came back to quite a few replies! Very cool. Not much mention of mace and/or knives (not that I'm encouraging that necessarily) - just an interesting observation is all. Again, thanks. DB | ||
| Court |
Johnboy 777 Having been shot 3 times in 1970 I agree with everything you say. I'm a huge fan of Masad Ayoob and have gathered some neat awards for marksmanship while employed by the govt. I never talk guns, never make an issue of what I have, don't have, carry or don't carry. I will never be a victim again. Well put. | ||
| Jb2607 |
Johnboy, I retired from gov't. work and there is a difference between the normal qualifications, 7 15 25 50 feet, etc. qualifying and what special operations groups use. They use much more realistic training, one hand, quick, close range, etc. | ||
| Slowride |
Yep, Carry daily.... Various methods, various sizes my favorite shooter at the range (Desert Eagle, baby 9mm 3.5inch barrel) Semper Fi | ||
| Unibear12r |
As both a civie and in a law enforcement capacity I have drawn my weapon a number of "stressful" times. I've never had to fire a shot in "anger". Part of that has been due to luck and part due to skill. ANYONE who says that they will ALWAYS shoot when they have a weapon drawn and pointed is either a fool or just wants to shoot somebody. The human brain IS the most important part of the shooting process. Never, at ANY point should it not be in the loop, even in the last tenth of a second pulling the trigger. Before you draw, 360 situation, beyond target and shoot no shoot, as you draw, the same again, as you line up, the same again, as you thumb the safety, the same again (one of the reasons why the Glock is a POS IMHO), again as you pull the trigger. All in a second or less from hands free to pulling the trigger. In a stressful situation you will do as you practice. Practicing firearms self defense is far more than just what it takes for good bullet placement. If you practice thinking you will think under stress and that will save your life or the lives of others. There are NO rules, just laws and situations. I'm reminded of the time,on duty, that I drew down on two men, one armed with a pistol in his hand, in a bad place, at a dark and bad time just after bad things had happened. Just a couple of nice guys who were walking home after buying a timing light to work on their car. That's one of many, many similar instances while I was in on duty. As a civie, driving home with my wife and child after visiting friends. Turned a dark corner and got caught in a barricade. When I tried to clear it two sets of angry voices and heavy pounding footsteps started rushing in from the dark. Bad situation as I was backlit from distant lights behind me and couldn;t see them at all. The only thing I could do was grab my wife's 357 (I wasn't packing) point it up so they could see it, •••• it, and point it in their direction. They ran and I destroyed their trap and went on my way. Or the time I wound up in a place where friends turned out to be less than friends and the bad guys no better or worse. It was time for me to leave and I had almost snuck away to my car when it got bad. A even more stealthy Banger had got behind me and got his hand on my gun. We wound up face to face staring in each others eyes with my 45 auto stuck in his belly button, cocked, unlocked and my finger on the trigger with his right hand wrapped around the barrel with my left hand on that wrist pushing away to make sure the 45 stayed in battery. He had earlier made a comment that he thought my weapon was a toy because it was not blue or silver but brown ( a military finish). I knew that in a half second he would likely die for that mistake and the results for me would not be good. Lucky for us both the heavy, cold weight of the weapon and solid click of it's safety going off convinced him. We were both lucky young men, we both got to go home and both much wiser. When people are involved, there are no set rules, just laws and situations, and while a firearm is an important survival tool the brain is more so, even in the last tenth of a second. (Message edited by unibear12r on June 14, 2008) | ||
| M_singer |
Johnboy777 Have you ever actually had to use a firearm in self defense? I suspect from you post that the answer is no. | ||
| M_singer |
A question for you guys who carry substantially size hand guns on your person while riding. Have you considered the potential to flail your chest if you crash and hit the ground with say a 1911 in a shoulder holster? | ||
| Uly1080 |
To clarify, my "concealed" weapon is not on my person while riding. It's "concealed" in the top box and readily accessible should I decide to carry upon reaching my destination...Again, only road trips. Maybe it's just me, but I've never had the need to shoot anything while I was riding. Being right handed, it could prove problematic. | ||
| Ulyranger |
Well said Unibear, spot on. Obviously a man of experience and training. I also like Court's concise, to-the-point post. There were several others I liked as well. It's amazing the response this question garnered in short order. I a student and follower of the Constitution as written and intended. To each their own choice, but I firmly believe that we should each have the Right to make that choice for ourselves. That being said it is the prepared mind and trained body that protect one in a hazardous situation. It is not the particular implement, but how prepared one is to end a threat with whatever is available and identify hazards, protections and escape routes. Train your mind and body to deal with whatever life throws at you...........walk softly and carry a big stick. DB, don't know if I answered your question. I am licensed for concealed carry.....sometimes I do....sometimes I don't..............but I am always prepared to deal with whatever comes my way with whatever is available to me including my feet. I have never left my house since about the age of 12 without a knife of some kind because it is the most basic tool any good woodsman carries. Makes for a major PITA in modern times, but even if it's just a small folder, Leatherman or clip folder I've always got something and usually more than one. If it came down to it I'd hope I used whatever was at my disposal to end the threat in safest, most reasonable manner to obtain the goal that has been trained relentlessly into my brain...........to go home safely to my family at the end of the day. | ||
| Luftkoph |
since age 13 when I found I could kill a man with my bare hands I quit packing a gun or knife  | ||
| Odie |
Compact .45, all the time. I'm getting to where I don't trust my fellow man much these days........... | ||
| Bigdaddy |
I don't trust my fellow man much these days........... Agreed. | ||
| Treadmarks |
Wow, This thread really took off. I'm glad it didn't turn into a pi$$ing contest. BadWeb Rocks.  | ||
| Johnboy777 |
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| Nevrenuf |
my brother in law just sent this to me and of course he owns a gun. By Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret) Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of either convincing me via argument, or force me to do your bidding under threat of force. Every human interaction falls into one of those two categories, without exception. Reason or force, that's it. In a truly moral and civilized society, people exclusively interact through persuasion. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some. When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force. You have to use reason and try to persuade me, because I have a way to negate your threat or employment of force. The gun is the only personal weapon that puts a 100-pound woman on equal footing with a 220-pound mugger, a 75-year old retiree on equal footing with a 19-year old gang banger, and a single gay guy on equal footing with a carload of drunk guys with baseball bats. The gun removes the disparity in physical strength, size,or numbers between a potential attacker and a defender. There are plenty of people who consider the gun as the source of bad force equations. These are the people who think that we'd be more civilized if all guns were removed from society, because a firearm makes it easier for a [armed] mugger to do his job. That, of course, is only true if the mugger's potential victims are mostly disarmed either by choice or by legislative fiat-it has no validity when most of a mugger's potential marks are armed. People who argue for the banning of arms ask for automatic rule by the young, the strong, and the many, and that's the exact opposite of a civilized society. A mugger, even an armed one, can only make a successful living in a society where the state has granted him a force monopoly. Then there's the argument that the gun makes confrontations lethal that otherwise would only result in injury. This argument is fallacious in several ways. Without guns involved, confrontations are won by the physically superior party inflicting overwhelming injury on the loser. People who think that fists, bats, sticks, or stones don't constitute lethal force watch too much TV, where people take beatings and come out of it with a bloody lip at worst. The fact that the gun makes lethal force easier works solely in favor of the weaker defender, not the stronger attacker. If both are armed, the field is level. The gun is the only weapon that's as lethal in the hands of an octogenarian as it is in the hands of a weight lifter. It simply wouldn't work as well as a force equalizer if it wasn't both lethal and easily employable. When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force. It removes force from the equation...and that's why carrying a gun is a civilized act. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force. It removes force from the equation...and that's why carrying a gun is a civilized act. Well said. Most criminals are cowards. If they know that a target is hard vs. soft, they will find an easier target. Those who aren't cowards are probably under the influence and without reason. The only certain equalizer is a weapon. |
