| Author | Message | ||
     Paochow |
I finally put the finishing touches on my shootout comparing the Buell Ulysses and KTM 990 Adventure. Feel free to to read the article here. http://www.paochow.com/ulyktm.php | ||
| Johnboy777 |
Sounds like sour grapes to me. Look, for the riding you do perhaps the KTM works better for, but really, who goes back to a forum designed specifically for a bike they no longer own, to post 'now I have a better bike'. The KTM is shit on-road...every one knows that, I mean, really. It merely tolerates paved roads so it can get to the dirt. I tested the new KTM, GS and Buell, before I bought, and choose the best 90/10 for my style of riding - 90% paved non-highways. Get real. . | ||
| Imonabuss |
Amen to that, Johnboy. The Ulysses outsells the 990 significantly in the US for good reason; it's a better all around bike. The KTM is better off road, but few ride that much, and as far as quality is concerned, I'd never own another KTM. Their dirt bikes I owned were absolute junk (broken frames, leaking fuel tanks, etc., etc.), and I always buy Japanese now for pure dirt bikes. Wish Buell had built their dirt bike, but I'll settle for Honda and Yamaha instead. | ||
| Windrider |
Paochow, Excellent write up! I really enjoyed reading it and the pics were great as well. I have only been lucky enough to ride a KTM for short distances off road and it is easy to see that the big Katoomer is King of the dirt. It simply devours any obstacle in it's path in the dirt. Just the same, all things considered, for my $$$ I would buy the Buell again. It fits my favorite style of riding, gets me where I want to go and I am comfortable doing what little maintenance it requires with my modest tool collection and my own two hands. I also think that the fun factor of the Buell is hard to match. I would be interested in seeing a cost of ownership comparison once you roll 15K on the KTM. Thanks for sharing and Happy Trails. | ||
| Old_mil |
One wouldn’t generally consider comparing these bikes. Yep. Interestingly, you go on to conclude: Crashworthiness: Buell So the more road oriented dual sport is the better crasher? Ironic. Either way, most dual sports - like most SUVs - are never ridden extensively as dirt bikes. This makes the Uly the right choice for 99% of buyers, and explains why it outsells the KTM. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
where as I love my city X I would never replace it with the KTM 990 or 990Sm. For me there is just not the edge. dont know how to describe it, but if you have ridden both you know. Now the 450 is another cup of soup altogether. I am seriously considering the KTM 450EXC for my next bike. HAD Buell build a dirt bike then I wouldn't be inclided to look outside the brand for a more dedicated single tracking ground pounding, air catching, whoopdee jouncing beast. Buell lost me on that one. I get one shot at it, and that purchase is going to Austria or Japan (DRZ400); Sorry Buell, you had your chance.  | ||
| Jmhinkle |
Actually I think it is a quite honest and fair review. I would have arrived at the same rankings too. Biggest drawback factor of the KTM is the same factor on the Multistrada for me. The price is staggering for both to me. The Uly really hits a ceiling of what I'm willing to pay for any type of motorcycle. For the price though, I feel you get much more and better bikes out of either compared to the Uly. If it matters to anyone, I don't think the Uly is the biggest flop of this class. I would give that to the Tiger. That is by far the most disgusting bike of the class. It does nothing good at all. Actually it brakes good. Good enough to stop the ride back at the dealer and get the hell away from that thing! I just wish I was willing to pay more for a bike. I would buy the Multi personally. It would ride my dirt road just fine and then outperform the Uly on the street by leaps and bounds for me. Even comfort on the Multi is better to me because the Ergos were amazingly tailored to my exact frame. Unfortunately, I'm not and now am clueless as to what to do with my beast of burden. | ||
| Treadmarks |
Fair review I think. Neither is perfect, but you choose what you like to ride.  I sat on the big KTM at the local stealer here in Miami, but my ass-o-meter preferred the comfort of the Uly. I do like the fact that he mentioned my Tidy Tail and DeathRay. I'm famous!  | ||
| Thunderbox |
Hey guys he called it like he sees it. That is honesty at least. One thing that was not mentioned was the dealership availability. I don't know about your area but in Canada I wouldn't touch a KTM for a million dollars because there just aren't any dealers. Having to put the bike in the back of a truck and drive a 1000 kms doesn't sound like much fun to me. The numbers of these bikes sold indicate that Buell has produced a more appealing machine and is outselling KTM by a long shot. Thanks for the article. I do wonder why his Uly has a lot of mileage and the KTM has so little. Makes me think riding the Buell is his real choice. | ||
| Gotj |
Wonderful job. I didn't find anything sour at all. Very even-handed. Convinced me I wouldn't want the KTM by laying out all of the pros and cons while alerting the reader to your preferences. Were you "between bike" when you wrote that? If not, it must have cost some considerable riding time.  | ||
| Paochow |
Actually I was laid up with a tonsillectomy for two weeks. I wasn't trying to bash the Uly, I had a lot of fun on mine, it just didn't work as well for my intended purpose once I ventured off road more and more. I wrote the article to give advice to potential buyers, since I always seem to be getting a email or PM from an owner considering the two bikes. Still confuses me how people are choosing between these two different machines, but I guess I owned both of them. I didn't try to sway the buyer too much, but rather provide a my opinion over a wide range of topics. With regard to mileage, I owned the Uly for 15 months and the Katoom for 3. The Katoom will catch the Uly mileage some day, but it definitely isn't as comfortable of a back road cruiser as the Buell. Treadmarks: Yes you are famous. And my ass-o-meter still prefers the Uly seat. Johnboy777: Sorry you feel that way, but I was a contributing member to this forum and a proud Uly owner long before you felt the need to register. Thunderbox: I didn't cover dealership availability, as in my area KTM has equal representation to Buell(HD). Besides, the KTM dealer I purchased from gives better customer service than the other Katoom dealer and both Harley dealers combined. (Message edited by paochow on November 30, 2007) | ||
| Gotj |
Paochow, I checked your profile for your occupation. I found it was hidden so I will just infer from the above post that you are a middle-East diplomat. If not, you should be because of the measured way you respond to insults. | ||
| Court |
>>>>it just didn't work as well for my intended purpose Don't worry about it. My wife bought a Porsche 911 and constantly bitched how shoe boxes, when she loaded the "truck" after shopping, left all the pimples all over the hood. She declared the car completely unsuitable for a woman who shops. It's the internet. Expect diverse opinions. Your's, like all of them, gets one voice, one vote. | ||
| Xbimmer |
I think it's a good and fair presentation/comparison. My brother has the 950 Adventure and we've done our own comparisons, pretty much to the same conclusions as Paochow. Except for the dirt, since I rarely go off-pavement and he relishes the practice. He can also ride the thing like the wind on those skinny tires on pavement. His KTM is also torn apart in his garage while he waits for the special tool he had to order to remove his failed water pump. Choices are what it's all about though, and my brother and I each think we bought the better bike!  | ||
| Longdog_cymru |
Hi, I'm not an Uly owner yet!! I ride a R1150GS. FWIW, I test rode a KTM Adventure 990 recently as I was considering buying either a 990 or an Uly. The 990 made me smile. It went really well, good rev range, felt sporty, it was comfortable, (apart from the seat!), handled nicely, understeered badly on every corner, but I liked it, I really liked it. Two weeks later, I rode an Uly. It was the dealer's demo. 2 years old with 11,000 miles on it. It looked rough, like what you guys would call a "junkyard dog". It had lived most of it's life outside, been thrashed as a demo and as a loan bike and had only been cleaned now and again, but there was no corrosion!!!!!!!! That was a big plus after BMWs "legendary" build quality!! Then I rode it. I rode Motorways, dual carriageways, A roads, towns and tight and twisty single-track country lanes. I got back laughing like a lunatic in my helmet!!!!!! It was amazing!!!! I had to have one!!! Now I have a decision: Do I grab a bargain '06 model with around $4,400 off list or wait for an '08? The '06 looks very tempting. Just a final thought: Should any car or bike that relies on water cooling be fitted with a water pump that cries "enough"! at 10 - 15,000 miles??? What if it goes without warning??? Should an integral part of the machine really be treated as a "change part"? Somehow, I think not! | ||
| Tstone |
Longdog, I bought a 2006 under similar circumstances and have no regrets. The brake dive is a little alarming at first - but only at first. The turning radius is the only thing I'd caution you about. It's not a spoiler, and I'm still glad I saved a few thousand dollars, but you should be made aware that the 2006 has a comparatively wide turning radius. Another thing is, if you’re like me and never before owned a 45 degree V-Twin, you’ll be alarmed at how much they shake at idle. Not to worry though – the shakes go away as soon as you get underway. By the way, I couldn’t agree less with the article that started this thread. The 990 would be a miserable dirt bike and a mediocre street bike. It doesn’t take a great deal of analysis to come to this conclusion either. The KTM is 1000cc v-twin. 1000cc v-twins are miserable dirt bikes . A reasonably useful off road knobby will not hold up to a 1000cc v-twin. 1000cc v-twins with bald knobbies (or street tires) or an even more miserable dirt bike. Street bikes with 34 inch seat heights are mediocre street bikes. Street bikes with 34 inch seat heights and very little sag are miserable street bikes. Street bikes with hard, narrow seats are miserable street bikes. Street bikes with hard, narrow seats and no legitimate passenger area are….need I continue? Don’t get me wrong. I have a KTM MXC300 which I really enjoy, and I consider myself loyal to the KTM brand, but the 990 ain’t no ULY! Tom S | ||
| Teeps |
As most have discovered, they are different hammers, designed to drive different nails... | ||
| Dentguy |
Paochow...Thanks for the great shootout. The luggage rack brackets may not be the problem if you are talking about where they bolt on at the footpegs. It could be Buells rear frame rails off a little when they tighten them. Mine didn't want to line up, but if you loosen the bolts in the front where the rear rails bolt to the main frame (to loosen the whole tail section) you can get the bolts right in. At least you could on mine. Just in case anyone is having this problem. Again, great shootout. | ||
| Xbimmer |
I wonder whether the 1125R engine has a similar or same water pump as the KTM... | ||
| Dentguy |
}Just a final thought: Should any car or bike that relies on water cooling be fitted with a water pump that cries "enough"! at 10 - 15,000 miles??? What if it goes without warning??? Should an integral part of the machine really be treated as a "change part"? Somehow, I think not! I'm not trying to defend KTM, but I don't think they designed it to be a "change part" at 10-15,000 miles or die without warning. But, who knows maybe they did. My guess is they designed it to last longer but it has had some problems. These things happen. I can think of another manufacturer with bikes that have had problems with wheel bearings, drive belts, bank angle sensors, frayed wires, stators, voltage regulators, etc. Some people treat some of those things as a "change part" and carry spares. I would see these as integral parts of a machine also. I don't think they designed it that way. | ||
| Etennuly |
Well written, good job. I don't see any reason for anyone to have to be defensive about any of the comparisons. I really love riding my Uly and will continue to do so. Without much of the dirt, thank you. | ||
| Tootal |
Paochow, I enjoyed the comparison a lot. I believe it to be accurate and I'm still glad I got the Uly. Since we rode a lot of the same roads in Colorado, including Engineer Pass, I understood your feelings toward the Uly. The problem with going down the mountain didn't seem as bad to me. I found myself using the front brake without issue. The hard pack and rock seemed to have good traction so I didn't have any problems with the front end wanting to wash out. Had it been mud then that would have been spooky! The KTM is definitely the better dirt machine but just the thought of me being comfortable for a 1000 mile ride to the mountain, then through the mountains, and being able to conquer roads like Engineer Pass only to ride another 1000 miles in comfort made the Uly a surprising soul mate. Now if I lived closer to those roads then the KTM would make more sense. In the end there is room for both bikes as they both excel at what they were intended for. | ||
| Longdog_cymru |
Just a final thought: Should any car or bike that relies on water cooling be fitted with a water pump that cries "enough"! at 10 - 15,000 miles??? What if it goes without warning??? Should an integral part of the machine really be treated as a "change part"? Somehow, I think not! I'm not trying to defend KTM, but I don't think they designed it to be a "change part" at 10-15,000 miles or die without warning. But, who knows maybe they did. My guess is they designed it to last longer but it has had some problems. These things happen. I can think of another manufacturer with bikes that have had problems with wheel bearings, drive belts, bank angle sensors, frayed wires, stators, voltage regulators, etc. Some people treat some of those things as a "change part" and carry spares. I would see these as integral parts of a machine also. I don't think they designed it that way. Hi Dentguy, Yes, I can only agree with what you said here. My point was that in Paochow's excellent website and report on his impressions of both of these bikes, he should come to the conclusion that the water pump be treated as a change part. I feel it should last much longer than this and we shouldn't accept it. You made other points about the Uly, and again, it seems quality control leaves something to be desired. Issues like these are not acceptable either. As I said, I have a GS1150 and I am disappointed by it corroding away and BMWs attitude that I should either buy new parts to begin the corrosion process again or just go away!!! Don't even get me started on paralever bearings!!!! | ||
| Dentguy |
Longdog_cymru....Thanks for the response. I understand what you mean. Also thanks for the BMW info and their attitude it is good to know. I have not owned a BMW, but I have thought about one. What I don't want is a bike that corrodes away. I loved riding my Uly until it was totaled when I tagged the deer, but I wasn't that bummed when it went away. Some of the issues I had were just frustrating. | ||
| Paochow |
Tstone: A switch to 07 progressive fork springs, greatly reduces the fork dive. It's relatively cheap too ~$40 for the springs, $10 for oil and $35 for the tool. Powersliding through corners and torching a rear tire on a 1000cc (or 1200cc) V-twin is one thing that will quickly bring a smile to your face. If you haven't tried it I'd recommend doing so. The rush of driving a big powerful bike on fast dirt doesn't compare to doing the same on a dirt bike. As for the seat, my issues with the KTM seat is that it is too soft. And as for the seat height the taller the better for me. I feel like a circus clown on most of the modern Japanese bikes. | ||
| Old_mil |
I have not owned a BMW Trust me - you don't want to. | ||
| Backroad_hog |
I appreciated the comparison, I have a KLR 650 for when I want to get really dirty. And I own a 26year old BMW (not corroded at all, pre paralever) and I bought my 2007 Uly over a more expensive R1200GS. KLR 650-Backroad Bomber BMW R80G/S-Backroad Boxer 07 Uly-Backroad Hog | ||
| Rick_a |
I think a 950 Supermoto would've been a better comparison, but it's a good read nonetheless. (Message edited by Rick_a on December 03, 2007) | ||
| Paochow |
I think a 950 Supermoto would've been a better comparison, but it's a good read nonetheless. If you have one I can borrow for a few months, I'd be happy to write it up  | ||
| Crusty |
I have not owned a BMW Trust me - you don't want to.  +1 |
