| Author | Message | ||
     Xbimmer |
Well I'm at 40k on the Uly and decided after all the wheel bearing failures posted to take Electraglider's advice and pull the seals on the front wheel today while it was off for another new Sync. Mind you I hesitate at this kind of stuff since I don't like disturbing seals but at 40k I wanted to know more about these ball bearings we roll on. Hit the drug store for a flat dental pick which worked well to gently insert between the inner race and inner seal lip, a gentle twist and pry lifted the seal away, however the metal in the seals is VERY thin and deforms easily. After 40k I was amazed to see clean blue grease on the cage and in the bearing. There was a little dirty crap on the seal lips but no evidence of contamination beyond. The inner race is stepped in the vicinity of the seal lips, seems to be effective enough, more on that later. The bearings spun smoothly requiring a firm twist with the inner race so I pushed a decent amount of Lucas Red 'n Tacky #2 into each cage and into each bearing. Odd that the rotor side bearing had a lot of original grease visible, the left side had hardly any on the cage. More on that later also... Wiped the seal seats in the outer races clear and proceeded to reinstall the seals. Here comes the first problem. The seals need to be manually (fingers, no tools!) flattened and evened out before refitting, if not the lip doesn't fit the inner race as it should. I had to try 3 times on the rotor side before I figured that out. I seated the outer of the seals with a greased pencil eraser. The seal lips need to fit the inner race inside of the step, and evenly around. When I was done I closely checked everything and installed the wheel. Slathered the axle again in silver anti-seize and had to smile because in 10k since the last time there was zero corrosion and junk on the axle and spacer. And here's where I go out on the limb... There's no reason IMHO that these front 6005's won't last 100k+ with some attention. When I change out the rear Sync in a couple of weeks I'm going to do the same procedure, although between now and then I intend to pick up a couple of non-stock bearings just in case. The rears seem to be more susceptible to damage, and I'm not comfortable with what comes stock. I checked with my reliable dealer here this A.M. for replacements, all they had in stock was BMC's Recall set (for the '03's) and they were Taiwan bearings. As I said before, one of my front bearings had lots of grease, the other had hardly any. On the rear wheel I would think that could make a difference maybe. I'd really like to find whether the seals themselves are obtainable, this is something I intend to do from now on whenever I remove a wheel. Bearing check, grease shot, new seal, all good!  | ||
| Jlnance |
Thanks for the writeup. It's good to hear that they were in good shape. You mentioned getting new rear bearings. Here are the ones I got. They have a store in Raleigh, so I just picked them up, but they do web sales as well. http://www.applied.com/apps/commerce/catalog/catal og.do?e=10&s=4021061 | ||
| Xbimmer |
Thanks Jlnance. Are the bearings you got Japan also? That's really what I'm after, a more reputable country of origin. Maybe I'm giving Taiwan a bum rap but stock bearings ARE failing in Ulys and my fronts WERE greased differently. Wouldn't hurt to upgrade. | ||
| Jmhinkle |
Xbimmer, If you follow the link to Applied Industrial Technologies and click on similar parts, there are a few options. AIT used to be Bearings Inc., and usually stock good bearings from a few different mfg. I've had good luck with SKF bearings in different applications, and they are usually stamped Argentina, Germany or Japan. I haven't had problems with any of them in Industrial use. They are more than the KOYO's though. I don't have any personal experience with the KOYO brand. | ||
| Jlnance |
Xbimmer - Yes, they are Koyo, made in Japan. | ||
| Husky |
Xbimmer, when you do the rear wheel, try to lever the seal off using the point of your pocket knife between the O.D. of the seal and the bearing. This is the trick I use on my dirt bikes. The O.D. of the seal is rubber and designed to press fit into the slight counter bore surface on the bearing outer race. They are very easy to reinstall, they just snap right in using slight finger tip pressure on the seal and bearing race. This will not damage or distort the seal. Husky | ||
| Dr_greg |
I installed Nachi bearing on my rear at about 35K miles. They're high quality Japanese (I was told). | ||
| Xbimmer |
Thanks for the input guys. Did some checking on the AIT site today and some searches on the components of the various bearings listed. I admit I don't know squat about this stuff, that's what I like best about enthusiast forums and the internet. My Uly will have 100k wheel bearings one way or the other! | ||
| Red_chili |
Koyo are OEM for Toyota. VERY good quality. | ||
| Xbimmer |
Update on the rear bearings since I had the wheel off today. It's unfortunate that some riders are losing the bearings for whatever reasons, but the rears in my bike appear to be as good as the fronts I checked last week. 40k and they still spun smoothly with zero play or other signs of wear. While the front spacer loosens between the bearings when the front wheel is removed, the spacer in my rear wheel stays tight between the bearings, to the point that when one inner race is spun the other side turns also. Don't know whether that's normal or not. Seals were more difficult to remove, seems the inner lip resides in a groove in the inner race I don't remember in the 6005 fronts. Bearings were clean inside, not a whole lot of green grease though. No sign of any rust or contamination other than some gunk in the recess of the lip. Cleaned up the seals and races and repacked the cages, reassembled as before with the fronts. I have no idea from working on my wheels how some are failing with some guys' bikes, but something isn't right somewhere... I don't pressure wash my bike and rarely ride rain, but I would think in 40k the cages inside would look like mud if the seals were totally at fault with the failed bearings. Maybe it is bad bearing batches or bad torquing, who knows. I'll be watching mine closely. | ||
| Teeps |
From reading anecdotes here; the likely causes, in order (of what "I" think is most likely) are: 1. excess preload (over torquing axle?) 2. contamination 3. sub standard bearing (built out of spec) | ||
| Xbimmer |
Whatever the reason(s) Teeps I'm glad mine seem OK. Glad I took Electraglider's advice to open them up. I'd still like to get a supply of the seals tho... | ||
| Teeps |
Xbimmer Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2007 Glad I took Electraglider's advice to open them up. Some interesting reading, though not specifically pointed at motorcycle "sealed" bearings, it still applies in general. http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/sealed-bearings .html http://www.skatelog.com/bearings/covers.htm Bottom line... the bearings are not designed to be serviceable. | ||
| Gotj |
"Seal Removeable(sic) side plates on a bearing that are usually made of rubber or some other flexible material. Seals provide protection against contamination and loss of lubrication material, but seals can be removed to allow the bearings to be cleaned. (A bearing will either have non-removeable (sic) shields on the sides, or removeable (sic) seals.)" The above quote is from the second link in Teeps last post. To me, it contradicts Teeps' conclusion that "Bottom line... the bearings are not designed to be serviceable." I serviced mine for twenty years of enduro riding and will on my Uly too. The Uly seals are the removable type so I don't see the problem. | ||
| Teeps |
I stand by my statement that this type of bearing is not "designed" to be serviceable. Just because the seals can be removed and reinstalled; does not mean that doing so it's right. If it was an acceptable practice there would be instructions for servicing the wheel bearings in the Buell service manual. | ||
| Xbimmer |
Mind you I hesitate at this kind of stuff since I don't like disturbing seals but at 40k I wanted to know more about these ball bearings we roll on. Guys I posted this thread just to offer my personal observations about my wheel bearings. I was uncomfortable rolling around at higher speeds often two-up on wheels w/ 40k bearings in them while other people were having sudden and sometimes catastrophic failures. Bearings in my Airhead are easy, disassemble, clean, repack, new seal, done. My fronts are original at almost 200k. I realized that I could introduce a problem into a sealed bearing by opening it up, which is why I was meticulous with my work. But I feel much better about my bearings now! Now if I could only buy a couple dozen new seals... Teeps, going to Long Beach this w/e? We'll be dining early at the Rock Store and heading up Saturday. See you there?  | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Teeps, Why you would argue that a bearing isn't serviceable makes no sense to me. You pry out the seal, inspect, add grease, reinstall the seal, and you are done servicing the bearing. Quit trying to talk people out of servicing a fixable part. If the bearing looks like hell when you inspect it then replace it, otherwise slap some grease around the balls and save yourself money. The Buell service manual also has torque figures for oil plugs that will strip out the swingarm aluminum so make sure you follow that recommendation to the letter. And if a staple holding the naugahyde to the seat pan works itself loose make sure you replace the entire seat because the service manual doesn't cover that kind of risky repair either. | ||
| Thumper74 |
Your favorite auto parts retailer makes a needle to inject grease into 'sealed' bearings/hub assemblies. You should be able to service those wheel bearings without removing the wheel... | ||
| Longdog_cymru |
Bottom line... the bearings are not designed to be serviceable. I have to agree; From 37 years experience in industry, sealed bearings are exactly that. | ||
| Gotj |
"I stand by my statement that this type of bearing is not "designed" to be serviceable." According to the link you gave us, The adjective "removable" was applied to the seal and "bearings to be cleaned" was what the removal enabled. That sure sounds like it is designed to be serviceable to me. The pattern I see is that people "in the industry" don't consider them serviceable. Is that because because they wouldn't do that for a customer with the cost/value ratio way too high compared to simply replacing the bearing? I probably would agree from that perspective. But as a DIY project, they are serviceable with a low cost/value ratio. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
They are sealed bearing up to the point that you unseal and regrease then they become sealed bearings again after you reseal them. | ||
| Bigkuri |
Jeez guys, Teeps is right on the nail - let it go. Sealed bearings are just that - the name is supposed to give you a clue... In NZ it used to be sealed bearings (cheaper, longer lasting without service; but then throw away) and packable bearings - which is a simple metal race, a PITA, was a bit more pricey, and requires regreasing/packing every few thousand km. Sealed bearings are "meant" to be used & then replace. Sure, you can pry out the seals and service them, but that's not what they are designed for. | ||
| Florida_lime |
Let's change the subject; how 'bout something everyone can agree on..... I found out today what the ONLY weight and brand of oil you should use in your Buell is, it's.....   | ||
| Xbimmer |
Rear wheel update update. Just a report and hopefully no grenades as a result!  In my plan to completely isolate the bearing balls from the elements with a barricade of fresh grease it seems I forgot about thermal expansion. It was warm out the other day and I went for a break-in ride for my new Strada. Stopped to check the scrub pattern and CRAP! Grease from under the right side seal lip was mixing with antiseize and spitting out onto my sprocket... Went home, pulled the wheel again. Pulled the seals again and removed a bunch of grease from each bearing around the cage. Put it all back together and it's fine now. Learned a lesson, leave some air in there!  Found my camera today so next time I do this I'll post pix if anyone's curious about what goes on in the bearings. | ||
| Teeps |
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| Hughlysses |
In one of the earlier bearing threads, there was some good guidance given for how much grease should be put in the bearing. | ||
| Xbimmer |
  I'll have to look for that thread, Hughlysses, thanks. Still convinced I did the right thing.  |
