| Author | Message | ||
     Electraglider_1997 |
I have the new Air Flow Deflector Kit and reported on how they look nice but aren't that much help. Here is what I'm trying now. In lieu of drilling holes I've removed the 4 caps that cover the bungee cord hooking spots that are located on the floor of the seat compartment. The idea is to create a flow of air under the seat and it seems to work. Those "black caps" have rubber gaskets and are easily pried off with a screw driver. They also can be easily reapplied with some silicone gasket sealer if I decide to put them back in place. I've ridden gravel roads with them removed and then checked for dust buildup and there is none. I rode for about 40 minutes last evening and the fan never came on until I turned the ULY off. I feel that without air flow under the seat the heat just builds up and heat soaks the ECM and Battery and eventually makes its way up through the seat foam and slow roasts your ass. MMMMM roasted ass. While I was riding last evening I wore sweat pants(nylon) and my leg never cooked like it normally has since removing the home made heat shield and installing the Air Deflector Kit. Those four bungee hooking holes aren't much but without them opened it is pretty much dead air and now it is flowing engine induced heat out the holes. Does this make any sense to anyone? I really don't like the idea of laying insulated blankets over the holes to manage the heat. That rear cylinder is way too shrouded now for an aircooled engine IMHO. | ||
| Aeholton |
That's interesting. The only reservation I would have would be water spraying up there when riding in the rain. I'll pull mine and see what happens. | ||
| Midnightrider |
Wow. That's really an intriguing concept. I haven't popped the bungee covers off yet but I'm thinking that a small screen over the holes might give some feedback about the road dirt issue. Granted the screens will reduce the airflow, but you could check the screens to monitor how much dirt and moisture build up. I've been trying to think of ways to increase the air flow ever since I replaced the cooling fan myself last week and realized, for the first time, which way the fan blows. Duh! All this time I just assumed the fan blew air onto the heads, not drew it in over the heads and vented all that hot air under the seat. Now I'm wondering if you can't take this a step further and cut a vent of some sort into the seat pan? I'm picturing something like a low profile louver (something along the lines of an air conditioning vent from an automobile) that would allow you to close it (at least partially) in adverse conditions like rain or real dusty roads. Along the same lines, I'm guessing anything you might want to store under the seat, like the aftermarket Uly travel case, actually impedes the current airflow and is counterproductive to a cooling air flow. I'd love to hear any other ideas or mods anyone else is thinking about | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
I really have no qualms about boring a couple of new holes back there to increase air flow. I might even put a hole in that silver metal divider that is to the left of the back of the battery. I'm thinking that the rear cylinder air flow is really impeded by the dead air under the seat. A vacuum of sorts is made by opening the holes like I've done with the bungee hook holes, and this draws from the front area under the seat by the rear cylinder. Anybody that has owned a boat know that you can clear water from the bottom of the boat by opening the hole at the rear floor of the boat so long as you are under way. Sucks the water right out. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
I just got back from doing 42 miles of 60 to 65mph riding. The fan didn't come on until over 30 miles and that seems pretty far considering it's 93 degrees outside. Anyway, after the bike was shut off the swingarm oil was registering 190 degrees on the dipstick thermometer which is just about where it ought to be. Fan ran for a minute or two and shut off. I had ridden with blue jeans on and right leg heat wasn't an issue. I think I'm onto something here and would ask others to give it a try (see above 1st post). The only thing different is that I've also got those new fangled heat deflectors but I don't know how much difference they make. Before I removed the bungee hook covers I had reported that even though the new heat deflectors move heat that there was still the heat coming out in front of the right side deflector between the seat and tank and was still very bothersome. I didn't notice that today. My ride was in all directions so wind direction was at times every which way. It would be real nice to discover an essentially zero cost alternative to the Right Side Scoop issue and alleviate leg heat roasting in one fell swoop. | ||
| Bertotti |
After seeing the foil trick I was wondering about opening the area around the rear shock up more. When I looked at pictures posted of the Uly and another Buell the Uly really was closed off around the rear shock. | ||
| Teeps |
Cool! so to speak. I'll give most anything a try, especially if it's free. I too think the air stalls in the bodywork behind the fan. I also think the fan itself if the biggest impediment to air flow, when its not running. If not for hot soak restarting (fuel boiling) concerns, I bet the fan could be removed completely. | ||
| Birdmanrh |
I would echo the concern about water. Any water getting in that way will basically end up filling up the area where the battery, the fuseblock and the electrical connections sit. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
I understand the concern over water and electrical components but that can be overcome. What I am trying to do is prove or disprove a concept of flowing more air over that rear cylinder by eliminating the dead spot under the seat. If this idea has merit it should be easy enough to notice. God knows we all have complained about the heat and the fan and succeed or fail I'm going to attempt to figure it out. | ||
| Aeholton |
I think you are on to something. I had a look under my seat tonight for a few minutes and have a couple of ideas I may work on this weekend. The only thing is, I noticed the bottom side of the seat pan has a flat piece of plastic sticking down across the seat pan that looks like it meets with the metal piece sticking up just aft of the battery. It appears to almost create a compartment. I wonder if something would have to be done to allow air to through to the back. I plan to study it more this weekend. | ||
| Thelumox |
i think you might be on to something here. i'm concerned about the water issue, so i went out and looked around under the seat. i removed the little bungee covers, then drilled a couple of little holes (3/16") on either side of the hump just aft of the lip in the pan that divides the storage area from the battery pan. these appear to be the low spots in the storage area where water would collect. i'm planning on riding tomorrow to see if there is any noticeable difference. i know that testing new mods is risky and dangerous, but i'm willing to do this for the betterment of Buellers everywhere. | ||
| Od_cleaver |
Electraglider, Is the underside of the '06 seat different than the '07? My '07 seat has a plastic dam that comes down just behind the battery. This dam looks like it would block off any meaningful airflow thru the holes created by removing the four caps. | ||
| Midnightrider |
Od...I was wondering the same thing. I was trying to figure out someway to take a picture from the area under the seat with the seat on. My cell phone video feature would work - but its too darn dark! I've also started looking for someplace to add vents (or holes) forward of the seat dam. Then again, you should be able to drill a few small holes in the seat dam without messing things up too bad. What do you think the purpose of the seat dam is? Is it for rigidity of the seat or is it to keep anything you might store under the seat from ending up on the battery or ECM? | ||
| Jameslaugesen |
How about using a fan with more space between blades, so there's less restriction when the fan is not running. Does anyone know the stats of the stock fan? Specifically how much air does it move? Edit: Thanks for this topic too. Very interest... we're approaching summer again (Sydney) and expecting it to be a HOT one. I'll definitely join in the experiments. Holes can always be sealed again  Maybe some small delfectors around the holes on the undertail, to reduce the chance of water/dirt getting in. Also might help create more of a venturi at the exit of the hole and more vacuum under the seat... maybe. If I can remember correctly, there's a distinct 'spray pattern' onto the undertail. I don't think the far edges of my undertail get sprayed with much dirt at all. So the clean places would be the best locations for more holes. There seems to be a distinct theme with Buell XB mods: MORE AIR! hahaha. Open airbox, open outer-cover, and now an open undertail. I like it :-D (Message edited by jameslaugesen on July 26, 2007) | ||
| L_je |
Around 250 SCFM. | ||
| Jameslaugesen |
Thanks L je  | ||
| Midnightrider |
I think the fan is strong enough. We just need to figure out how to make it easier for the hot air to get out of the box without making it more vulnerable to rain and without messing up the looks of the bike. Seems like there are two target now - getting the air past the seat dam and then getting the air out of the underseat compartment (Message edited by midnightrider on July 26, 2007) | ||
| Captain_nartman |
Excellent Idea! Temps are again Rising here in Central Australia, so, n it Rarely Rains, so I'll be Givin this a shot. I also Just Ordered the Air Deflectors from Andy. Hopfully with the RSS the Ceramic Coated Headers n the above, the approaching Months on end of 36c-43c Days will be LESS Radiant! Cheers N x | ||
| Florida_lime |
I've been meaning to thank Electraglider_1997 for posting about the air deflector kit; I was going to order it when it was first put on the Buell site. Someone had said that any of the updates probably wouldn't be available for a while, and I didn't order mine because that sounded pretty logical. I did order mine after seeing the thread however, thanks again !  | ||
| Midnightrider |
As I continue to think about this I keep changing my opinion. At one time I was thinking creating a vent ahead of the seat dam would be best - shorter route for the hot air and you wouldn't have to worry about getting the hot air past the dam. But this would probably dump the hot air right out near the riders legs. If we could channel the air past the seat dam we would still get rid of the hot air yet take it away from the rider. The passenger might then bear the brunt - but hey, I rarely have a rider and even so the added heat the passenger might experience still pales in comparison from the heat radiating from the heads. I'm not familiar with the heat deflectors. Is it possible to add some holes where they are mounted and then let the deflectors "deflect" it? | ||
| Jameslaugesen |
I'm hoping to have some of time to play with bikes over the weekend. So I'll try to do a few of these experiments. I have a volt meter / battery monitor / thermometer thing I've been waiting to mount on the dash. It has an external thermometer too, which I'll mount somewhere around the rear cylinder. I'll devise some kind of (fairly) consistent test, and record the ambient and 'rear cylinder' temperatures. Then hopefuly we'll be able to see the results. For a simple way to test the seat/damn theory, maybe just do a test run without the seat at all? Or with a temporary seat which doesn't obstruct the airflow as much. That might give us a target window to aim for. For example, if no seat at all results in a 5 degree temperature drop. And Electraglider's mod of removing the plugs results in a 4 degree temperature drop; one might conclude that it's not worth hacking things for only an extra 1 degree drop (example only, I'm not suggesting anything). | ||
| Bertotti |
I had my seat off today and I think the foil trick is a good one. There is enough room to vent through the rear shock area and keep the heat off the rider and passenger. I saw that air dam thing in there also and figured it would only help to keep the air moving down and out. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Seems that others here are looking at this problem the same as me. Earlier this evening I bored four 3/4" holes through that plastic seat "dam" and 4 small 3/8" holes around the plastic gusset in the middle of the seat dam. I also bore two 1" holes at the back of the seat pan and installed a couple of "snorkels". The snorkels are 26 cent PVC 3/4" street elbows. A street elbow has female thread on one end and male thread on the other. The male thread screws right into the 1" hole I bored and they are aimed "up" to address the water concern. I rode already with the snorkels but haven't ridden with the seat brace hole mods as I did that later and haven't ridden after that. The snorkels seemed to work to me but the ride wasn't long enough to get the fan going even though it was 98 degrees out this afternoon. I'll do a ride tomorrow and then write my impressions. I'll be honest with my evaluation. Glad to have gotten the creative juices flowing. While I was writing this a possum showed up on the deck and is chowing down on peanuts and rotisserie chicken scraps. Took a photo of it through the sliding glass window.    | ||
| Midnightrider |
Hey Glider Maybe warped minds do really think alike. This afternoon I picked up a couple of the same elbows. But I planned to mount the elbows below the seat pan, pointing backwards toward the license plate. I also bought 2 straight pvc hex-nutted threaded adaptors that I was going to mount in the underseat compartment, screwing them down into the threads in the elbow to secure the elbows. I even got as far as painting them flat black to make them less visible. Then I got to thinking that maybe the seat air dam was placed there intentionally to CREATE a dead air space. By blocking the flow of air into the underseat compartment behind the battery, wouldn't the "easiest" exit for the superheated air be out the spaces in the bike where the rear master cylinder is mounted (on the right) and the plug for the diagnostics hook-up (on the left) is located? One of the many questions that I'm not smart enough to know the answer to is does the factory design limit the flow of superheated air over the battery and the ECM and actually keep them cooler? Seems like maybe there at least five issues here. 1. What's the best way to increase the air flow over the heads while riding at speed? For this case the more holes and the more exit routes for the hot air would seem to be the solution. The proof, I guess, would be a fan that runs less often. 2. What's the best way to increase air flow over the heads in stop and go traffic or at low speeds? Again, here it seems that more holes for the air from the fan to exit provide less resistance to the discharged air from the fan, making it easier for the fan to draw more air over the heads and provide more cooling. Again the proof would probably be a fan that runs less often as well as being able to feel hot air being discharged from the holes or snorkles we create. 3. What's the best way to increase driver comfort? For this case anything that discharges the hot air behind the riders legs is better. Your holes in the seat air dam and holes in the underseat pan seem to be the best solution for this issue. 4. What's best for the battery and ECM? To answer this we would need to know if they get hotter under the factory configuration or if they get hotter when constantly bathed by an increased flow of superheated air we create by adding holes to the dam and the seat pan. Although we may think that increased air flow past the battery and ECM (or any chunk of hardware) ought to increase cooling on the one the one hand, is any expected cooling effect actually counteracted when the airstream is superhot? Would this hot air stream provide a net cooling or heating effect? There are probably a lot of variables in this equation, including the temp of the air as well as its velocity and volume. 5. What's the best compromise between increasing air flow over the heads without the fan, increasing air flow with the fan, venting the hot air away from the rider, and providing the coolest environment for the battery and ECM. All I know at this point is that it's way over my head. I'd love for an anonymous poster to jump in on this issue. Any anonys out there? | ||
| Unibear12r |
I don't know guys... But it seems to me that letting more hot air flow under the seat would be counterproductive. IMHO it would be best for rider and bike parts to get as much of the hot air down the shock well and out over the hugger as possible. | ||
| Midnightrider |
Yep, Bear The longer I look at it the more I agree | ||
| Packdog |
I have access to a couple of these temperature data loggers: http://www.dicksondata.com/product/model_TP120.php I am willing to run some experiments using them on my bike, if that would help out at all. I was thinking that I would put one in the rats nest to be my "ambient" temperature (although I know it gets some heat from the lights and isn't true ambient. I would put the other one in the under the seat area somewhere. I could ride with the air deflectors, w/o them, with and w/o the foil mod, etc. I could do other tests that the forum comes up with as well. Unfortunately I don't have a seat for my bike right now, but hopefully I will have one next week. I have an 06 Uly, the deflector kit, and lots of aluminum foil (I wear it on my head because.... well, nevermind, they might be listening). Oh, I also have access to possums,.... but I prefer to leave them alone! | ||
| Tdiddy |
Electraglider, That's a really ugly dog. | ||
| Aeholton |
Electraglider - Have you considered holes in the side wall of the plastic where I have drawn circles on your picture?  It looks like your dealer did a cleaner job of BAS recall work routing your extension up the ride side of the bike. My dealer ran it down the left and crossed over right where you have mounted your PVC elbows. But your cable holder could be moved from the right side wall, flipped and stuck to the bottom. This would allow air to exit aft of the rider. It would be somewhat protected from the elements by seat overhang and wouldn't be subject to water being flung up by the rear tire. Might heat up a passenger's leg though. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Midnightrider, I've got an O-ring and a hacksaw cutoff pvc union (3/8" thick) screwed up tight under one of the elbows but the other hasn't moved a bit since just screwing it into the 1" hole (silicone would do the trick). As for the heat over the battery, time will tell but I contend that it already gets hotter than hell under there in the stock condition and that is why folks with the low seats (thinner foam) complain of red hot galled baboon ass. Actually I'm very surprised that Buell engineers have mounted the ECM where they have. If it had longer wires I'd move it into the compartment area but alas the harness doesn't have that free play to do this. Aeholton, I haven't looked at those areas yet. Right now I'm just trying to do this without getting to the point where I can't put things back to original state if this doesn't have merit. As for the BAS relocation job, my dealer has a bunch of Buell riders including a ULY owner. I'm pleased so far with their service. Today, I'm going to take about a 30 to 40 mile ride at highway speeds and see how things play out. I'll try to hear exactly how long in time and miles it takes for the fan to kick on. I'll also check the oil temp at the swingarm and of course the leg heat. I'm also going to attach a meat thermometer to the side of the fuse box before heading out and will periodically check the temp. |
