| Author | Message | ||
     Wolffone2000 |
While I know that I am not the first to wonder 'what the heck is going on here??' with regard to electrical/ignition on this bike, I am also quite sure that our group on this site is a few steps ahead of the techs/dealers out there that are supposed to be more/earlier informed than the owners. I was one of the first to buy the '06 Uly's in August 2005. I had no problems with the thing other than immediate failure of the cooling fan (who hasn't had problems with it?). Shortly after purchase, I bought the race ECM, air filter and the stainless steel Drummer. No problems with any of the upgrades until recently. Like many others, I recently had the bank angle sensor and side stand replaced under recall and also the installation of the wiring reroute kit at the headset to prevent wiring shorts. Right after the BAS and wiring reroute I began having problems with the engine hesitating at all cruise throttle settings--that is, not accel or decel. I take it back to Brandon HD, the same dealer that has had all of my service completed, and I am informed after they dyno the engine, that the air/fuel mixture is WAY off and it requires a dyno/tune for the 11 different RPM settings that they adjust for. Now, my question is: If the pipe/ECM and filter have been on this thing for more than a year with no problems whatsoever, am I wrong to think the dealer is pointing to a payable service because I installed the upgrades they could conceivably think are the problem? Or is it a wiring harness or the BAS recall that is the problem? Mind you... none of the upgrades are any different than many others here who have done the same with almost no mention of needing a DYNO to work properly unless you were a tuner!! Please provide some input on this because $500.00 to pay the dealer for something that never appeared to exist seems like fishing to me. I appreciate it. | ||
| Etennuly |
Sounds to me like maybe you need to check the spark plugs and set the TPS. When you had it in while they were playing with it they may have partially fouled a plug. The TPS reset can just happen to be needed. Doing my own service, that is where I'd start. | ||
| Wolffone2000 |
The TPS reset was completed during the replacement of the ECM. Is that necessary regularly as part of my PM? How about plugs? It has 6K on it now. I have also been hearing about ignition wires that are fried because of high heat. | ||
| Teeps |
As I understand the Buell ECM is locked and requires a "key" to unlock it for custom tuning. A Direct Link key and software is $350 from American Sport Bike. Then you either need a "canned map" or someone with "skills" to unlock and tinker with the fuel maps. Maybe Al will chime in here... From a DYI view, I'd check the plug wires. (Message edited by teeps on June 14, 2007) | ||
| Wolffone2000 |
You know, my major problem with what is going on here, if it is requiring a 'tune', is why would someone buy the RACE ECM if you have to change it anyway? Isn't that the point of buying the 'out of the box' settings you get with the RACE ECM, because someone has already determined what works and what doesn't? If this is the case, then the RACE ECM was a total waste and just spending the money on dyno time would have done a better job. | ||
| Wolffone2000 |
I am also curious if possibly the fuel pump and its wiring issues that may be the next recall may be more the problem than the tuning the dealer is saying WAY off. | ||
| Lorazepam |
If you havent had the tps reset in 5k miles, it is due. The plugs should be fine, but the wires may be an issue, depending on how they are routed. If you read the shootout, it will give you some insight into what you should see with that pipe/ecm setup. I would ask to see a copy of the results they got on the dyno, along with an explanation of the same while viewing the chart. I would rather have Al's map than your dealer's. | ||
| Daves |
they are full of crap. the bike should run just fine with your set up. call Kevin call Al | ||
| Aeholton |
Wolffone2000 - If you don't have the VDSTS software/cable and want to take a ride over here to Palm Harbor, I would be happy to do the TPS reset with you for free. Might be worth a shot before paying $$$ for "tuning". | ||
| Al_lighton |
I don't know what they were planning on using to do the 'dyno/tune for the 11 different RPM settings that they adjust for', but just the scenario mentioned doesn't sound right. If it was running fine before it went in for the recalls, it should be running fine when it came out. We don't have an SS Drummer map yet, too hard to pry one out of Kevins fingers to get one done. We'll get to it this year I'm sure. While I'm a big fan of optimizing the map so that the AFV learns consistently, nothing I've seen on the Drummer SS curves would lead me to believe it won't run decent on a race ECM. I'm sure it would have some mild AFV skewing depending upon if it was cruised 2-3000 RPM vs 3-4000RPM, I doubt it would be significant enough to act the way you're describing. In fact, when the bike is cruising, the map has nothing to do with it, it is running in closed loop and the map is only being used to calculate the AFV, NOT to run the bike. The Race ECM was optimized for the race pipe, so it isn't a PERFECT match for your setup. But it won't have gross lean conditions and should run generally OK. If the problem is only occurring in cruise mode, I'd be looking for something to do with the O2 sensor. I would remove the airbox floor and look for a good O2 sensor connection, verify the ignition cable goodness, check the head temp sensor for fraying (all too common, I'm afraid). There hasn't been any caulking done on the bike with any silicone products, has there? I've seen that a couple times, it kills O2 sensors. But remember Al's two rules of Motorcycle and Automotive mechanics: 1) All problems are a grounding problem until proven otherwise 2) All problems are directly related to whatever work was last done on the bike, until proven otherwise. In this case, with the BAS recall performed, both rules are strongly in effect. I'd be removing and retorquing the ground connections under the seat, and looking for some possible loom damage. Al | ||
| Teeps |
Al, If I may add to your rules: All problems are connection or pinfit related until proven otherwise. | ||
| Bugnut |
Wolffone2000, I've dealt with Brandon H.D. for my stumbling RPM range for about 11 months out of the past 12. Even with a change to the race ECM, it just didn't cure it. Talk to Terry at Brandon H.D. He's attentive to "our" needs as Buellers. If it helps, I'm about 7 miles from them in Riverview and would be glad to hook up my VDSTS and reset your TPS. No charge!! Although H.D. sees us as stepchildren, there are a few good techs around. Side note - thanks Al. Got my VDSTS working. Much better when you turn on the engine run switch! Sorry to pester you while driving. Mike | ||
| Wolffone2000 |
Thanks for all the response. Adrian (Aeholton) is going to help me out with the TPS reset and see what an extra set of eyes on the thing that is not dealership related might help. I am of the same mindset as Al_lighton regarding it has to be related to the last repair/mod completed to cause its present condition. We will see tomorrow what develops with this thing. Erik Buell has got to have seen this board many times and felt proud that owners of his product have a passion for these bikes. Regardless of the fact the dealer is not always so welcome/informed or willing to go the extra mile to discover what the problem is. The sad part is the dealers that I have talked to about Buell are oblivious to much of the information developed on this site. Dealers should be regulars here reviewing what is going on with the bikes. | ||
| Crusty |
Dealers should be regulars here reviewing what is going on with the bikes. The good ones are. | ||
| Teeps |
There is a problem with dealers, manufacturers or their agents acting on internet news group anecdotes. They simply don't have the resources to separate the wheat from the chaff. Authorized agents of a manufacturer are obliged to stick to factory certified repairs. That is a dealer or agent cannot perform anecdotal internet news group "recommended" repairs. Because if they do, they (the dealer/tech) become wholly liable for said repair. That's not implying that all anecdotal repairs are bad, it's just that before a maker certifies the repair. The repair has to pass durability and legal tests. This aint our grandfather's business anymore. I work in the service side at the national level, I see what goes on daily, with automobiles. | ||
| Crusty |
Teeps, nobody is advocating anecdotal repairs. I hardly think that a "dyno/tune for the 11 different RPM settings" is a factory recommended repair, either. My point is that good dealers do monitor the sites to see what problems people are having, what accessories are popular, and what people expect for service from a dealer. Dave S showed everyone how to be a great dealer, and the people who paid attention to what he did are showing themselves to be good dealers, as well. | ||
| Teeps |
Crusty Posted on Saturday, June 16, 2007 My point is that good dealers do monitor the sites to see what problems people are having, what accessories are popular, and what people expect for service from a dealer. I wish you were right; but beyond the board sponsors. I think there are fewer than you might think. Dave S showed everyone how to be a great dealer, and the people who paid attention to what he did are showing themselves to be good dealers, as well. Yes, yes he did... | ||
| Cavi |
not just the dealers, but someone with a direct link to Buell should monitor the site. As for your bike, if it went into the shop and did not do this then it started after they did the reroute then the problem is the reroute not the ECM, I would deffinitly do a TPS reset first. I do not think I would trust my dealer to "tune" my ECM, I paid good money for Buell to make the Race ECM to match my pipe and air filter so my dealer has no buisness messing with the settings. | ||
| Wolffone2000 |
Well, after everything was said/done here, the fix was a TPS reset. Last night with Adrian a simple TPS reset fixed what the dealer claimed required a $500 tune/dyno. My opinion is that too many hands are getting put on a bike in the dealer with no continuity regarding the history of repairs. I think that when the BAS recall was completed it killed the TPS setting or whatever memory is associated with the electrical connnections for the BAS. Cavi recited what I said earlier that good money is paid by many of us for the race ECM to account for the pipe/filter change that is supposed to be plug/play. Is it just me, or are dealer service techs attempting to be 'mechanics' (without the associated on-the-job- training or practical experience) when the bulk of their training is associated with remove/replace according to manuf. direction? Or is 'put it on the dyno' the kneejerk response now by dealers that have one to justify having purchased the equipment? | ||
| Maximum |
It is so easy to do a TSP reset, I don't think that I will ever let a dealer do it for me. I can't see how some of them screw it up. | ||
| Etennuly |
Congrats on the "real" fix, great to see something done at the right price while stopping a "$ rape" in progress. | ||
| Dhalen32 |
Maximum: You say that it is easy to do a TPS reset. What do I need for equipment to do this myself? Thanks! Dave | ||
| Teeps |
You will need this: http://www.americansportbike.com/shoponline/ccp0-p rodshow/9305.html and a computer to connect it to. (Message edited by teeps on June 18, 2007) | ||
| Maximum |
An older laptop works great with VDSTS, it doesn't need to be very powerful, but you do need an RS232 serial port or the $40 USB to serial adapter. I have also done the TPS reset from my Palm Pilot with the same software. | ||
| Daves |
Glad you got it fixed and fixed right. I told you your dealer was full of crap  Once again, the power of Badweb shines thru! | ||
| Dynasport |
Dumb question - TPS=Throttle Position Sensor? | ||
| Lorazepam |
yes, it is the throttle position sensor. | ||
| Dhalen32 |
Teeps and Maximum: Thanks. I even have an older laptop to use. I own a shop manual for an '05 Lightning/City X. Will the rest of the information I need be in there? I.E., how often to reset the TPS and proper value(s)? Dave | ||
| Aeholton |
Al at American Sportbike has written a wonderful set of instructions on the TPS reset procedure. If you get the cable from them you should be all set. If you have any questions, just post them here and there are plenty of people with VDSTS that can help you out. | ||
| Maximum |
I reset my TPS every 5,000 miles. That is more often then the manual calls for, so I guess that I do it more often just because I can!  | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Al, Two questions. 1) Will it also reset the TPS on a 97' FLHTCI and a 2007 Sportster. 2) Why isn't it capable of checking the timing? |
