| Author | Message | ||
     Ulendo |
well, the cityX left me stranded by the side of the road today. some sort of short in the wiring, but doesnt seem to be the 'usual' steering head short. posting it here as the wiring issue seems to be more of a Uly thing, and I suspect/wonder if it relates to me using the CityX off road. last year riding dirt with debueller, I blew some fuses. some subsequent searching turned up a worn spot on the wiring (braided) cover by the ECM where my soft luggage straps had been chafing. re-routed the straps, and didn't have any more grief until recently. about a week ago, blew 2 fuses (acc) in a row when out for a ride - again, moved the luggage straps, and the problem went away. today, riding a bumpy dirt road...suddenly dead, dead, dead. I carry spares, so tried some roadside diagnostics. 3 fuses involved: acc, key switch, and the 30 amp battery fuse. removed the elbow cover by the steering head, and stripped off the braided harness covers all the way from the frame, to the gauge cluster - no visible chafing on any of the wires, and no visible black spots anywhere from arcing. pulled the airbox+base, and the upper harness across the motor all seemed to be in good condition, not touching anything hot, or abrading. rear harness ( in the subframe) also all looks good. my FSM is in the shop at work, and I'll be taking the bike in with me tomorrow to work on it. anyone have suggestions for where else a likely culprit is involving those 3 circuits? anyone encountered this on a CityX yet? any / all constructive input welcome. oh, and before anyone comments on 'its warranty - dealer' my dealer is 2 hours away, and less than confidence inspiring. The 'other side' of the shop where I work is a high end bike shop offering BMW Ducati & Benelli, so I have quite a bit of 'certified' technical backup on top of my own credentials. (Message edited by ulendo on April 22, 2007) | ||
| Cityxslicker |
A funny thing happened to me on the trail a couple of weeks ago. I nailed a stump and root HARD. It stalled and killed the bike. I thought maybe I jiggled the Lean Bank Sensor. In any case, it was dead. A push backwards out of the rut, several well placed Russian swear words and a reset of the key on off, it reset and fired. I dont think that bash plate on the CityX is as strong as on the ULY  No more single track for me. well at least not the hairy stuff | ||
| Debueller |
Sorry to hear your still having problems with your bike, U. All I could suggest is to double check all the wiring that you added for your accys? I've had zero electrical problems with my Uly. And at times I've not been very nice to it. | ||
| Ulendo |
Hi jerry - 1st thing I did was to remove the driving light harness. still no dice. I was on even rougher terrain yesterday that where I went with you guys though, so it was a biut hairy getting back to a civilized road. cityXslicker - this isnt just a 'dead': repeated fuse blowing, in sequence, and I cant even get the warning lights, or diagnostic cycle. I can get the bike to run, but no instrument functionality at all. as soon as I try adding a fuse, or upping the amp rating, fuses start popping. stripped it down some more at the shop today - fuses seem to blow in sequence. if I up the acc fuse, the key switch fuse blows, and if I up that one, the batt fuse pops - sequential circuits, from what I can tell, with progressively smaller amp ratings to protect the electgronics. I think it 'died' yesterday from the oversize 25 amp fuse I'd fit as my spare last week. whatever it is, its not a consistant hard short though: ran my good ammeter across the fuse terminals, and if I cycle the key, it'll pull 18 amps accross the acc fuse, then drop to 16 - I suspect thats the ECM trying to run the diagnostic cycle, and that theres a soft short/ bad terminal connection elsewhere in the system drawing the extra amps. given the sequential fuses, that amp draw, + whats on the Key switch circuit is enough to pop the key switch fuse if the acc doesnt blow, etc, etc, etc. right now the likely culprits seem to be the R/GY lead to the switch, the red lead from the switch to the instrument cluster, or even the key assembly its self. ( dirty contacts, maybe? I DONT use a keychain or anything, so there hasnt been any extra load on the tumbler assembly) any additional diagnostic suggestions appreciated:the poor buell is sitting on the back of my flat deck truck outside, and I'll be digging into more later on tonight | ||
| Terrible1one3 |
Man oh man familiarity. Worked at a Buell dealership, had a brand new bike that everytime the key was turned pop goes about 4 fuses. We replaced them with resettables to go ahead and check everything. Had every wire on that bike disconnected and taken off. Looked over everything... nothing. We were about to have buell come pick up the bike when me and one of the techs who was soo bored he decided to look at it FINALLY noticed where the arc came from. Even though we went through the wires from the fly screen under the frame we noticed the arc. We pulled the wires out farther than ever before and found the wires. Go through the neck grouping of wires so throughoughly you know 100% it isn't them. Otherwise tear all electronics off, put a kickstarter and number plates on it and dirtbike that thing :-P | ||
| Lorazepam |
ok, with normal fuses, the acc circuit is the one with the problem. If you up that fuse, then the fuse that supplies it, the key switch fuse, blows. Same with the batt fuse. Concentrate on what is connected to the acc circuit. The wire color is listed as O/W, I assume that would be orange/white. This would be the: flasher license plate light tail light headlamp and the power to the coil of the aux relay. That is where your problem is. Get a manual, it comes in handy for isolating the problem, instead of shaking wires.  | ||
| Ulendo |
lorazepram - I HAVE the manual, I just didnt have it with me on the trail. As I indicated in my second post, I work as a tech, and am working my way through the harness. unfortunately, the manual doesnt indicate where the harness splices are located on the bike...for example, there are 2 O/W wires running across the steering head harness, but no indication on the wiring diagram of why there would be. nor can you tell just from looking at the wiring diagram how select portions of the system behave under different key positions. ( ie: does the dash zero to ground if zero voltage is supplied ? ) without being able to power up the circuit, I dont know if a null reading is correct, or if I should be pulling conductivity to the fuse, or ground. (**** in addition to playing with automotive stuff, I'm a licensed medical equipment tech, and a great deal of THAT gear ground protects its circuits when not 'active'....) | ||
| Ulendo |
post script - got it figured out finally. are we taking dibs on what the weirdest electrical gremlin you can find on a Buell is?? hint: no component failures, no shorted wires, and no crossed connections.... anyone...anyone... | ||
| Reepicheep |
Hmmmm... define "component" better. That's a stumper! Diode backwards? Rock in the fan? Mischevious co-rider? | ||
| Ulendo |
nope. component failure - no mechanical, or electrical equipment on the bike had actually failed or broken (aside from the blown fuses) if you're a douglas adams fan, think 'fundamental interconnectedness of all things' if a student of asian philosophy, the butterfly and tornado effect. | ||
| Lorazepam |
My uly has a flasher and a headlight fed by orange and white wires. They are probably the wires you are looking for, unless the soft luggage has damaged the license plate light or tail light wire. The flasher and the headlight have their own ground points. The tail light and lic plate light share a common ground. Considering the circuit in question is fed by the key switch fuse, which doesnt blow unless you overload it by upping the acc fuse. I would personally go to the headlight, and trace it back to the connector at the harness, and see if there is an orange and white wire. I would also take off the fly screen and look for the big black flasher, and see if the wire is there as well. Funny, I have been a field service tech on histology equipment for 16 years. | ||
| Lorazepam |
The weirdest one for me is the the Uly is the only bike I have owned that the battery connections will loosen up on their own. | ||
| Ulendo |
Lorazepram - mines medical mobility tech, Pride, and Invacare certified, as well as vehicle lifts, and hand controls. loved the industry, hated the guys I was working for, moved on. My diagnostics pretty much followed your thoughts so far. I'd actually pulled the flyscreen, seat, and entire airbox assembly roadside to follow the harness, and couldnt find anything. given the known issues around the steering head, and the weird symptoms, I'd concentrated on the harness from the battery to the instrument cluster ( especially since it seemed to center on the lack of warning lights, and diagnostic cycle) turns out, the problem didnt involve broken, or chafed wires. The soft luggage goes under the seat, and around the rear peg braces: no contact with the harness anywhere but the ECM, and as it happens, wasnt the problem. You were very, very close with the comment on the tail lights. the CityX uses a bullet type license plate bulb. testing for amp draw down each leg of the circuit isolated the problem to the 10" section at the rear, or the bulb assembly its self. I guess from bouncing off road, it had jumped out of the socket slightly, and was JUST making contact between the grounded end of the bulb, and the UNINSULATED positive lead inside the housing. the bulb was still good, but there was a fine ring of carbon arcing on the end where the positive lead had been making contact. DOH!! now I've gotta rewrap the harness, and I'll be adding some shrink tube and insulation to that damn bulb housing | ||
| Lorazepam |
glad you found it! electrical problems take on a different perspective when it is your stuff vs someone else's. | ||
| Ulendo |
actually, I'm laughing my ass off over it. shaking my head at the same time, but laughing. Does the uly use a similar setup? might be worth checking. CityXslicker - you should check/fix/modify yours for sure. | ||
| Lorazepam |
washboarded gravel roads will get get your booty shaking. I will look at mine. Just curious, what is the amp draw with the bulb seated? | ||
| Reepicheep |
Excellent find Ulendo! Thanks for posting the followup.. It'll no doubt save somebody at some point... | ||
| Ulendo |
lorazepram - I'll double check the numbers tonight, after I've run the bike back up to full power. The numbers while I was testing were <18 amps while it was loosely shorting, a 'dead short' when it touched, and ~0.84 amps with the bulb lit, in the correct position ( tested at the single wire connection beside the tail light) | ||
| Debueller |
Wow Chris. I'm glad you found the problem. Has that gremlin has been around since last year when my bro and I were there and you having problems with fuses blowing? Was it a problem with the 197 bulb? Or the connection to the bulb causing an arc? That sux that such a simple, cheap component can cause such a headache. Now get that bike put back together, get out in the sunshine, and go ridin'!! (Message edited by debueller on April 24, 2007) | ||
| Rubberdown |
Glad you got it sorted out so fast. Chasing the electrical gremlins is no fun. | ||
| Terrible1one3 |
Only problem I ever had that remotely resembled that was front brake switch on my XL883 breaking causing the rear light to be always on which melted the brake light housing and subsequently almost got me ass packed by my co-worker. | ||
| Ulendo |
jerry - the bulb had actually hopped out of the hole on the ground contact, but instead of just falling out, it moved forwards, and was making intermittent contact with where the + terminal connects to the light assembly. the positive connection is a non insulated female spade terminal from the wiring harness: that, combined with the large contact caps on the bulb meant that it was just close enough for current to arc across ( thus my ~18 amp draw). on a good bounce, it actually touched, and blew the fuse. And yes, I think this might have been the same issue I had last year running the bouncy sections of the KVR. All other issues seem to have been due to using higher rated fuses as roadside substitutes. as a short term solution, I've shrink tubed the + lead, and shrink tubed the non-contact areas of the bulb caps. long term, I'll be swapping in LED's, as well as an LED conversion 1157 in the tail light. (and self resetting circuit breakers in the correct amperages) |
