| Author | Message | ||
     Ihavemanyfleas |
Just thought I would let everyone know what my experience has been so far on my pinging uly. Buell flew down to sunny Austin to replace the motor, and at about 500 miles into the break in it started pinging again. It's at the shop for it's second 1k. The local rep drove in to verify the pinging, and wasn't able to reproduce it like he was the first time. So, in a way, I'm back to square one. I left a lot of the original story out since this has been going on for some time, but anyone who has flamed me before should remember... as well as those who sympathise with me. They ARE working on a fix, and they have the old power plant in a lab trying to reproduce the problem. My concern now is that the problem doesn't seem to be the motor unless I'm just the most unlucky SOB out there. I feel like it's in the ECM, but what do I know. For those of you who are more tech than I am, take that data and do with it what you will. | ||
| Milo_h |
Dang! I hope ya get it figured out. Looking forward to how it all works out. Peace Milo | ||
| Aeholton |
Sorry to hear that. My bike pinged early in life. It still will if I sit in a lot of crawling stop and go traffic. However, it is much less with the race ECM and right side air scoop. I took my bike to the dealer early in life complaining of ping. When I got there it was good and hot and actually pinged on the off ramp of the interstate when I exited to the dealer. I walked in, told the service adviser to have the tech go run it right away while it was hot. Then I went into the waiting room and sat around for a couple of hours. I thought great, they must really be working on it to solve the problem. Finally the service adviser came into the customer lounge and said my bike was ready. When we got to the counter, I asked him what they found. He looks down and reads the work order where the tech wrote down that he rode the bike for 20 miles without observing any pinging. I asked him when he rode it and he said he just got back. I asked him why he didn't ride it right after I got there and it was good and hot. He just stood there and stared at me. I don't take my bike for service there any longer. I try not to get stuck in crawling traffic and I believe the RSS helps when moving. | ||
| Snowscum |
I got my tuned at High Country HD with the direct link this week. I have the race kit(300 mile mark). It hasnt pinged since the intake leak was fixed last September. It hasnt been hot here yet either. I only have ridden it 20 miles with the new tune up and it does feel more responsive. 4 hp and 4 lbs torque improvement over the race program. Ill let you guys know when it starts getting hot if it pings or not. So I had a couple of issues before and havent been able to make it ping yet. 6k miles on her. It could be the ecm making your ping. I think their running to lean. When I had my intake leak fixed it was the front cylinder that was leaking and it would ping sometimes even if the fan came on. So I think it was the front cylinder that was pinging. But some many things have changed since it pinged I may never know what solved it. | ||
| Snowscum |
By the way they sold me on "it will run 30 degrees cooler with our tune up". They also claim their the only ones in Colorado that can tune buells this way. (Message edited by snowscum on April 18, 2007) | ||
| Dentguy |
Ihavemanyfleas...I don't think you are the most unlucky SOB. I am feeling that way myself. I dropped of my Uly on 4/1/07 at dealer for pinging after getting involved with customer service. The dealer verified the pinging, CS contacted the dealer and gave them some things to check. Friday 4/13/07 I called CS to check on the progress because earlier in the week the dealer said they had been waiting for a call back from them. CS said they had spoken with them about an hour earlier and that they would get back to me when they found out what was going on. About an hour later the dealer called and said the bike was ready. I asked what they found and was told everything is within specs to just ride it. I asked what that meant and was told that was the message relayed from Buell. I spoke with the tech, he said they checked it over and everything is within Buell specs. He also put fresh fuel in it and said it still pings , but not as bad as when it came in. I picked up the bike on 4/14/07. Today 4/18/07 the dealer called and said Buell called them back and wants them to tear down the top end and take some measurements. We had a long talk about it and will probably speak again in a few days. The dealer and my CS contact have been helpful and very understanding of my problems and concerns, and I have not spoken with CS since picking up the bike as my contact there has been out this week. I am trying to stay positive about this but it is sometimes difficult. If Buell already has an engine back at the factory that had the same problems with pinging as mine, I would like to know what they found with it before digging into mine to do exploratory surgery. Enough said about this for now. | ||
| Nutsosane |
My pinger was re-ringed and the heads were rebuilt; the ping has not re-appeared. So far my dealings with Buell CS have been fantastic as well as my dealer. I am really hoping the ping does not show itself any more, but the summer heat will tell the tale. NUTS | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
Perhaps there is something wrong with the fuel in your area? | ||
| Teeps |
fleas, As a fellow Uly rider, who's bike also pings. I have said from the start that the answer to pining issue lies in the ECM. I have also said that I believe there is mucho magic going on in the ECM, with regard to ig timing. I know how investigations like these go... all automotive/motorcycle companies work the same way. Because, the EPA, in this case, dictates the path they must follow. What I think Buell should do is install a knock sensor and a flight recorder on the bikes that are said to ping. Then let the owners ride, as they normally do. All the pertinent data could quickly be gathered and they'd know what needs to be done. Just my 2 cents worth... | ||
| Wademan |
 huh... that sucks man. I will be interested to hear the cause of this. | ||
| Teeps |
Nutsosane Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 06:08 am: My pinger was re-ringed and the heads were rebuilt; the ping has not re-appeared. So far my dealings with Buell CS have been fantastic as well as my dealer. I am really hoping the ping does not show itself any more, but the summer heat will tell the tale. NUTS If your bike is going to ping, the weather does not have to be warm... Try this, find a steep uphill pull 1/4 mile or longer. With the engine fully warmed up, drive up the hill in 3rd gear about 3k to 3.5k rpm. Roll the throttle on to wot; if it's going to ping, you should hear it between 4k and 4.5k rpm. Mine will ping under that circumstance nearly every time.} | ||
| Iugradmark |
Seems like everyone can make their bike's ping but when they show up at the shop, the mechanics can't duplicate this. Buell even take a specific motor back to analyze it. This doesn't seem to make sense to me if they all can be made to do this by owners, why can't Buell duplicate and fix? | ||
| Teeps |
Iugradmark, The bikes will ping under other (random) circumstances too. I just found that the particular scenario above will make mine ping nearly every time. | ||
| Iugradmark |
I understand. It seems to me that rather than fly techs and engines around, Buell should fly an owner or two out and show them how easy it is to make the engine ping and get on with the process of fixing it. These kinds of issues are huge and can greatly impact sales, resale value, and perception in the market. | ||
| Teeps |
Iugradmark, Yes there is a lot to be said about "going to the place and seeing the problem first hand." Do you work in the manufacturing industry? | ||
| Nutsosane |
Teeps, thanks for the tip. NUTS | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
Is the VOES working ok? Do they even have them? Sounds like the ignition isn't being retarded under low-vacuum situations to me. | ||
| Naustin |
Dealers techs don't report being able to duplicate the problem because they don't want to deal with it. Period. Ihavemanyfleas - that sucks huge salty balls, man. My question is - did buell KNOW that replacing your motor probably wouldn't help - and only did it to get their hands on the the engine for their own purposes? They must know the root cause by now. It can't be too difficult for an engineer to figure out. They had to know replaceing the motor probably wouldn't cure it. They just want to tear the 1st motor down to determine the extent of the damage. And I think putting you though the song and dance just to get their paws on your motor was Superlame. Superlame, Buell, Superlame! (Message edited by naustin on April 20, 2007) | ||
| Davo |
There is no VOES or MAP sensor on the current VDO-EFI system. Load is calculated by a combination of RPM and TPS. The VSS (vehicle speed sensor) goes to the ECM as well but I speculate that it is only used as a trigger for AFV learn mode. I recorded many logs and have never found it to be a timing trigger. The cruise mode creating the greatest spark advance is 3K at 9-12 TPS and rear head temperatures above 320F (operating temperatures for my engine is around 397-405F). Roll on the TPS from there and the ECM will drop 10 degrees of ignition timing. | ||
| Stevem123 |
Dealers techs don't report being able to duplicate the problem because they don't want to deal with it. Period. It doesn't do anyone any good to make accusations without substantiating facts. IMO Buell has and continues to provide excellent support to their customers. While there are many speculations about reported pinging and their causes, it needs to be understood that there are equally as many outside possibilities that can cause pinging such as temperature, humidity, altitude, riding style, fuel quality, etc. Our bikes are race bred machines and as such, even slight variations in fuel can make big differences in how they run. I'm not saying there is no problem but I do know that Buell is tied at the hands by the EPA rules forcing them to run as lean as possible to meet their standards. That puts a high performance engine at the edge of the envelope. I'm sure they could easily change the map to stop the pinging completly but it would probably not meet EPA standards then. Lowering the compression would also fix the problem but you lose performance as the trade-off. I can live with it since I don't do much parade duty. As long as I keep moving I don't have a problem. BC Steve | ||
| Superglide |
Tell the service guy to follow the lyndall brake pad break-in procedure and see if it pings in the process. 20-0 mph 10x, then 40-0 mph 10x. I did this in about 5 mins and noticed a light ping upon initial acceleration about the 15th time, never shifted out of 1st gear.... I'm just glad the smoke was from the pads! |
