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Buell Motorcycle Forum » Big, Bad & Dirty (Buell XB12X Ulysses Adventure Board) » BB&D Archives » Archive through March 02, 2007 » Archive through March 02nd, 2007 » Adding Oil to Forks « Previous Next »

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Bails
Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 01:49 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I read that adding 10ml of oil to the front forks will stiffen the front spring rate up. If this is so, how do I add oil to the front forks, I asked the dealer today ,he said that the forks needed to be pulled from the triple clamps??? I was hoping that it was just a matter of taking the top off or something like this.
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Maximum
Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 08:13 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I also asked a dealer about this. He said that adding oil to the forks above specs will put a strain on the fork seals, causing them to fail premature. Sounds like it makes sense, but then again, I don't know.
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Red_chili
Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 11:59 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Don't add above specs then. Besides, by the time you get much beyond the upper limit, it will ride like crap. It's not the holy grail though.

Add 5 mm at a time ONLY (height, not volume). Small increases in oil height can have a more noticeable difference than you would think. And to do it right, you do need to pull the forks and springs and measure them collapsed, dirt-bike style.

(Message edited by Red_Chili on February 15, 2007)
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Lorazepam
Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 02:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

+1 on the 5mm. That should firm up the front plenty. If you need it firmer (probably not) just wait until the next service, and add another 5mm.
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Bails
Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 04:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

OK so I've got what amount needs adding but the second part of my question is how? Is it just a matter of taking the top pre load nuts all the way off and adding oil down the upper fork tube. I intend to measure the amount of oil I add,as I'm assuming the oil levels are currently even due to it being a new bike.I spoke about adding Millie Litres, and the responses are in Millie Meters , so I'll calc the Volume to get a mm, and multiply by five. I'm trying to stop the amount of front end dive I currently have,as I can't get new springs in time for my journey.
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Red_chili
Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 12:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The right way to do it:
Loosen the top cap a bit, remove the forks from the triple clamps, remove the top cap, remove the springs, collapse the forks, take a baseline measurement of oil height (not volume. mm, not ml). (Rocky Mountain ATV has an inexpensive oil height tool, or you can do what I did and use a squeeze bulb, aluminum tube, and a sharpie to mark off 5mm increments on the aluminum tubing.) This is the height you are not terribly satisfied with. Be sure to drain as much oil as possible off the springs and such though, as oil remaining on them will result in a false low reading.

Change the fork oil. Follow the FSM. Fill the forks to the baseline height previously mentioned, plus 5mm. Reassemble and test it out. Likely, you will stop there.

The incorrect, imprecise method: guess at how much oil might be measured to gain 5mm height. Add this imprecise amount, as a total guess. It might work, the odds are you will get it out of whack, but if you like the results good luck repeating it at your next service, since you really don't know the oil height.

But we won't shoot you or anything!

Fork oil is not measured in volume. Mebbe the old days, but not for a long time since.
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Bails
Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 02:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thanks Red_Chili, I was aiming to do the in precise way as I 'm assuming that the oil is correct in both legs at present. So if this is the case and I add say for example 50 ml Volume per leg , how do I add ? Is this just remove top adjuster caps and pour in ? You seem to have had some experience with the front forks so I appreciate your in put.
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Red_chili
Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2007 - 06:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

With forks similar, yes. A fair amount. With these particular forks, not yet. I'd take a look at the service manual really; safest bet.

I'd go read mine and post it, but then you wouldn't buy one, you'd dive in and get hung up, you'd be mad at me, and then you wouldn't buy me beer... knowwhutImean?


50mL sounds a bit much. See if you can find a graduated cylinder roughly the same diameter as the lower fork tube, and see how much adds approximately 5mm, and go with that.

(Message edited by Red_Chili on February 20, 2007)
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Red_chili
Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2007 - 07:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

OH, OK.... I feel bad. Could cost me beer though.

Looks similar to dirt bike forks as expected. This all assumes you've put the bike on a jack and it is stable with the front wheel off the ground - in fact, with the front wheel removed.

Per the Official Word of Buell (they say to remove the forks; I wouldn't. Use the triple clamp as a vise.): You need to remove the snap ring at the top of the preload adjuster, then unscrew the preload adjuster.

Then remove the fork cap from the outer tube. YOU SHOULD USE A GOOD QUALITY 6-PT. SOCKET FOR THIS. DON'T SAY I DID NOT TELL YOU. Removing the cap means nothing will support the bike, so use common sense (and/or a jack, as mentioned above). The Word of Buell says to use a fork compressing tool, which helps to compress the spring itself and relieves pressure on the cap, which is still attached to the damping rod (A homemade compressing tool looks to be an easy fab job, BTW... but I digress). This lets you put a wrench on the damping rod nut, and unscrew the cap from the rod for further disassembly.

I shall now risk heresy against the Word of Buell. I've gotten away without spring compression tools on dirt bikes, using techniques to make old women faint and young women swoon, but ... You won't need to remove the cap from the damping rod, and likely won't need to even remove the snap ring. I *would* relieve preload fully though. That means the cap *should* be able to be unscrewed from the outer tube with no complications, and you can then place a small jackstand under the inner tube end (axle end) to support it and give you a place to pour in the fork fluid.

But should the Inquisitors come a-knockin', I shall disavow all involvement with such heresy.

There, I have paid the price of beers lost.


Note: you won't know the magic height of oil when you next service your forks, if you find it via this method. You knew that though.

(Message edited by Red_Chili on February 20, 2007)
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Birdmanrh
Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2007 - 07:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

You may run into a problem assuming that the oil is at the proper level to start.

I think the specs allow for +/- 5mm on the 2006, so good luck.
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Red_chili
Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2007 - 07:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Quite so.
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Stevenknapp
Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2007 - 08:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

YOU SHOULD USE A GOOD QUALITY 6-PT. SOCKET FOR THIS. DON'T SAY I DID NOT TELL YOU.

What he said. But I found you need a deep well. I also had OK success with a box end wrench.

Harbor Freight sells a deep well socket for $20-30. Snap on is $140 or so.
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Treadmarks
Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2007 - 08:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Never assume. It will cause you to make and ass out of u and me.

Pull the forks, drain them, fill them with the fluid of choice (I use Mobil 1 ATF) then drain them again to flush out all the bad stuff. Fill the with your fluid of choice, +5/10cc or what ever you decide on. Put them back on and be happy. Document your fluid type and volume in your service manual so you know what to take out/add afterwards.
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Bails
Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 01:53 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I put it this way if the fluid is different in each fork at presence I can't tell. Therefore if I add the same amount to each leg then this should do the trick. I'll give it a go.
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Aussiexbox
Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 02:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Bails was yours an 06 or an 07 model,as they have changed the springs in the front forks,oh and by the way,give us a shout for the trip next year down to the island.
Hope the new ones going well.
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Bails
Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 06:03 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Bails was yours an 06 or an 07 model,as they have changed the springs in the front forks,oh and by the way,give us a shout for the trip next year down to the island.
Hope the new ones going well.


Mine is a new 06, but I have so far:- Changed the lights,changed the seat to 07, RH Scoop, new front tyre , new screen(zero Gravity) ordered through the slack Touratech organization handle bar bag and tank bag.

I can buy the 07 springs but that will take the normal 8 weeks to get here, so I thought add some oil to stop the big nose dive under brakes. I hope to change the springs when I get back from P.I.

Next PI trip MotoGP
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Red_chili
Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 04:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Bails, by the time you follow my procedure above, you are a gnat's eyebrow from doing it the right way... by height, not by volume. Then you know.

Even keeping track of volume for next time won't necessarily result in the same height. Oil sticks to things. Height is absolute.

BTW, M1 ATF is around 7W, but not necessarily consistently so. They don't control weight on ATF as much as other properties. I'd spring for fork fluid, PJ1 is affordable and decent quality.
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Chadhargis
Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 04:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I thought I heard somewhere that 10wt was the proper fluid.
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Bails
Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 04:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I'd spring for fork fluid, PJ1 is affordable and decent quality.
I intend to do this.

Now just the exhaust note ???
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Red_chili
Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 04:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Eh? Exhaust note?
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