| Author | Message | ||
     55spy |
Alright a consolidated list of why the 07 is that much better than the 06. What i found 07 airbox modified for improved flow/performance 07 fork springs are progressive 07 ECM programmed for the new airbox 07 low seat standard I ask because my local dealer here in Nebraska has 3 06's they are looking to sell under for just 10k. Of course there is always buying used dealer or private since I won't be financing (anyone want a clean Beck 550 Spyder? it's gotta go before I get anothe toy) is it worth the $1500 bucks saved to get an 06? I can get the suspension reworked for about $400 like I do most my mx bikes I'm guessing, buy the airbox for less than $100, I don't need the low seat, I can almost flatfoot the 06, Am I gonna be putting a Race ECM on it anyway? (maybe) And pinger...seems like the jury is still out on the real cause. Thanks in advance Edited to correct inaccurate information (Message edited by Blake on February 12, 2007) | ||
| Davo |
55spy, Personally I would pay the extra money for the 07. My 06 has had several problems one of which is/was severe pinging but I really like the concept of the bike. I am going to get rid of mine after bike week. I will pull the engine down first to figure out the cause of excessive compression. I also want to make sure the new owner will be satisfied with the product. | ||
| Windrider |
55Spy, It all depends upon how much $1500 means to you. The 07 also benefits from more subtle refinements in production line maturity and more resale value. The 06 is not that much different on the other hand. Either one will max your smile meter. | ||
| 55spy |
On the ping If it's excessive compression you would think that a thicker gasket set with less crush would fix it... and be of minimal cost. I have not dealt with US V-twins before but there have been air cooled twins for what seems like forever. This problem should not be new. Does anyone know what the relation between all the "B12" motors is? they've been used for a while now right. I understand the joys and frustrations of first model year stuff, have owned 2 first model year cars...both bought back under lemon law BTW, and 3 first model year bikes the most recent of which is the Honda CRF450X. Guess I'll make some calls and see where pricing is on the 07's within 200 miles to see what the real $ difference is. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
55spy, I would definitely spring for the 07. The changes seem immaterial, but aggregately they make a big difference. | ||
| Windrider |
55 Spy, On the pinging, I don't think that all 06's ping. Test ride one and see for yourself before you buy it. Mine does not ping and I still have it bone stock in 06 trim. Most of the pinging population on BadWeb has been "fixed" but turing back the ignition timing a bit. If you have a concern about this chat with the dealer about it. If they are any good they will know about it and how to cure it. The XB series motors have been in production for quite a while. They are pretty near bullet proof and easy to maintain. | ||
| Davo |
55spy, Thicker gasket, shim up up the cylinders or relieve the heads. THose are the three options. There is no question that the compression is too high. I have 180-185 psi on the front and 170-175 psi on the rear. The question is how much of it is carbon? I started pinging as soon as the break in was complete. The only way to reduce the pressures without going into the engine is to retard the timing. I have been running 7-9 degrees late for the last 5K. The factory and dealer techs have warned me not to changed the timing. I want to know why. By the way they don't even know what the initial CPS offset is in degrees. I find this very troubling. If they don't know what the initial offset is then they don't know how much to add to the ECM numbers. For example I was able to document the 3K hesitation by logging the engine on my laptop. Would you believe it was timing? As much as 62 degrees of advance at 3K/9-11TPS. Ouch! After retarding my timing, the hesitation is almost completely gone! | ||
| Gotj |
55spy, Here's my two cent's worth at about 1,000 miles on an 06. 07 head reworked to prevent/reduce pinging Mine doesn't ping either. It seems most don't. Is the head reworking a fact (per an official Buell source)or rumor? 07 airbox modified...I can't really find what changed I just changed to an 07 airbox, $35. It's a must-do. It has about three times the intake area. I haven't done the 07 ECM reflash but that would be $30-40, about 1/2 labor if they charge at all. You could haggle on the reflash and the airbox. 07 fork springs are progressive Do some searching on this issue. There are conflicting opinions on BadWeb on whether this is an upgrade. 07 ECM programmed for the headwork New ECM programmed for at least the airbox but don't know about the headwork, if any. As noted above, this is a free to $40 item. At this point, I don't intend to do the reflash unless I learn something significant that convinces me to. My impression is that it enables the engine to be much more rev-happy than with the 06 box, almost like an XB9. I assume 07 low seat standard I bought the 07 seat, $110. It is between the 06 standard and 06 low in height. It is contoured much differently than the 06. It is also 1" longer in the driver's space, that is, the distance from the front of the 07 seat to the back of the driver's portion is 1" longer than the 06. If you can almost flatfoot the 06. you might appreciate the extra length. | ||
| Xbimmer |
My '06 bought new in May '06 pinged from day one here in So CA in moderate weather. Summer was a complete bummer. It even pings now in Feb unless it's pretty cold out. It is the sole reason I would ever consider dumping it, regardless of the various other niggling problems. I love this bike and should have 20k on it before end of the month, I ride it constantly. A few months ago I did say to get the '06 and use the saved $$$$ for farkles, but if the '07's with their differently-part-numbered heads have been built to deal with the ping then BMC needs to 'fess up to their devotees and admit it. Engine teardown under warranty is not the same as replacing a sidestand, or taillight, or oil cooler, or two clutch cable wireforms like I've had to do. Why the hell would I trust my dealer to do a warrantied teardown if after 9 months they still can't admit my bike pings and still haven't figured out how to reimburse my $85 I paid Grand Teton HD to set my FACTORY SET timing from too advanced to spec? Yet it still pings! I've got two '07 seats, the airbox cover, the progressives, the Syncs, and a bunch of other goodies and more to come. But unless nobody's buying '07's I hear nothing about them pinging. Maybe there's something to the "different head" theory... if so BMC needs to come clean. I vote go for an '07. | ||
| Wademan |
My 06 is ping free. It was a May 06 production. I dont know why but I would be leary of 05 prod dates. If they have three make sure you get the one most recently off the line. I think a very small amount of 06 bikes were pingers. I would go with the 07 just for the peace of mind. But either way you go you wont be disappointed. | ||
| Lovehamr |
Once I installed the pro series muffler, filter and ECM my pinging stopped except for extreme temps here in south GA. My single largest complaint wouldn't be solved with an 07 and that is the dealer support or lack there of. JMHO Steve | ||
| Bails |
I have an 06 May Production,and purchased for the savings. I'll change the seat, put stronger front springs,and do other bits which I have the change from buying an 07. I haven't had the bike ping as yet.run on 98 octane, and I've broken it in as I will ride it in the future, just a little softer in load department. So saved the dollars,as I knew as with previous bikes I'd change out many items to personalise my ride. | ||
| Ihavemanyfleas |
My May 06 pings like xbimmer says... Other than the ping, I love the bike. Same problem with the dealer, they just cant figure it out. | ||
| Anonymous |
Just to end the mad rumours, there are no different heads, nor is there any programming difference. The pinging has been more frustrating for us at Buell than for any customer. Why do I say this? In 100% of every bike Customer Service has been able to track down and check, the pinging is due to modifications or incorrect setting of the timing plate. Repeat, 100%. Resetting the timing is easy if you have the dealer tools and manual. If the dealer is doing ot wrong we can show them how to do it right. Some folks who we have tried to contact refuse to return calls or refuse to the their bike in for free inspection and correction. When these folks continue to post that there is a problem, it is very frustrating. Ihavetoomany, please contact Alan Ball in Customer Service. Again, 100% of the stock bikes we have been involved with and have had the chance to get back to the dealer have been fixed. There is a team assigned to this who will fly to the site to identify another problem if we find one that can't simply be fixed with proper adjustment, as we are intensely committed to customer satisfaction. It is not right for the bikes to ping, and if they are set to spec, they don't. | ||
| Davo |
Anonymous, There clearly is a problem and it is not the timing being set incorrectly. I have written and called Buell and even mailed my data to them. I had this pinging thing figured out last May. Could you please answer this question: If the engine is at least 320F and the engine is at idle (1050) and the ECM shows zero advance on #1, Then where is the engine firing relative to the TDC mark on the flywheel? Nobody at Buell has been able to answer this question. They never replied to my letter. If I could talk with a concerned technician with the accurate data we could figure this thing out in short order. | ||
| Davo |
Also: I know of one 06 Uly owner on this forum that had a top end rebuild due to high compression. The problem was pinging and the timing was set numerous times. To my knowledge they simply removed carbon deposits and reassembled. Your 100% solution being CPS adjustment is not correct. | ||
| Blake |
Davo, I think you might want to step back and consider for a moment that you may not have all the pertinent facts, all the vital information required to support such adamant assertions. High compression can occur due to carbon buildup which in turn can lead to pinging. I'm sure there are a number of other alternative explanations. I can tell you one thing, if/when Anonymous says that: "In 100% of the bikes that Customer Service has been able to track down and check, the pinging was due to modifications or incorrect setting of the timing plate. Repeat, 100%." You can take that to the bank. I'm guessing you missed the part where Anony qualified his statement with the "bikes that customer service has been able to track down and check" comment. | ||
| Ihavemanyfleas |
Ihavetoomany? Perhaps you do. I have a problem bike, and my dealer cant figure it out. I am going through a process of figuring out why, and how to fix it, as many others are. Being defensive, and mangling my handle, isn't the solution. I am posting my experience with the pinging, and my dealer. I think my complaints are legit. Like I have said before, my next move is to contact buell cust service and ask them to take it from there. I had a problem, followed it on this board for some time. When I took it to the dealer they 'were aware of some of the pinging but couldn't reproduce the problem.' So, they did nothing. I asked them if they contacted buell about any known fixes, and they had not. They said they checked the timing and that it was correct. As you said, some have not been doing this correctly, and I assume this could be a possibility. It is obvious, houwever, that this is a problem, and that others here have found problems beyond the timing that seems to affect 'some' of the pinging bikes. It would be great to get this resolved. I haven't had the experience with Buell customer service yet, and from what I have seen recently, I anticipate that this will be a good experience. I think it's in everyone's intereste that this experience is documented. Those who have no problems, I'm sure would agree, that they want everyone's buell experience to be a good one. This is my second xb bike, and I love(d) them both. It's a fantastic machine, and a pure joy to ride. It's a progressively innovative concept, and in no way am I slamming Buell. The fact remains that I have a pinging bike, my dealer cant figure it out, and I am taking steps to remedy the problem through personal experience, and observing the information of other xb12x riders with a similar issue. When my bike is running properly, and I can say why, I will post my findings here as I'm sure others will wnat to know that it's fixed. Your beef shouldn't be with us, it should be with your dealers. If you want to fix the problem, address your the dealer end of it as that's the only negative experience I have ever read any of us really having. I'm not bashing dealers either, but they obviously haven't been informed of any possible fixes from buell. If you have a fix, make sure the dealers have the information so that the techs can fix it regardless of wether or not they are doing things wrong. If you know they are doing it wrong, make sure they know, becuase those of us who spent the money & believe in buell aren't getting treated coreectly through our dealer experience. Again, I like my dealer, they seem to be trying, but they haven't heard anything official about it yet. I'm honestly just trying to contribute in a constructive manner. end of line. (Message edited by ihavemanyfleas on February 11, 2007) (Message edited by ihavemanyfleas on February 11, 2007) (Message edited by ihavemanyfleas on February 11, 2007) | ||
| Davo |
Blake, I understand your devotion to this forum and your confidence in Anonymous, but I know that one BadWeber brought their bike in and I know why he brought it in and I know what was done to correct it. The reason that I know is that he brought his bike in after my recommendation. I had a long talk with Alan Ball at Buell and he said if they could get a pinger with a case number then they could figure it out. This bikes timing had been checked more than one time. As for carbon, I know that it is a factor and most likely is a factor with my Uly due to late timing which was set by me. I am sorry if I am out of line but I am extremely frustrated with this issue and a bike that should be a treasure has become a burden. | ||
| Xbimmer |
Anonymous, one of the things I really like about this Forum is the participation from BMC people and their BadWeB regulars. You say 100% have been fixed when dealt with and I have no reason to doubt that, in fact I am encouraged by that info. I'm only my bike's operator and a new Buell owner at that, I haven't the faintest idea what goes on behind BMC's doors, but I keep the faith. From my perspective the "carboned-up" explanation is bogus, my 10/05 built Uly wasn't even prepped when I selected it from the floor, and it pinged on the way home, NEW! I brought that to the dealer's attention immediately, was told that was "normal" for Buells, asked them to check the timing at the 1k, was told it was "ok", pinged my bike away until 3k or so and had another dealer out of state finally tell me the bike had too much advance from the factory. Paid (why?) to have the timing set to "spec", bike ran great @ 5k ft altitude next few days then went back to pinging on the way home. Less so I admit. Excuse me, but I did ask my dealer to look into that at the 1k... So now Murraebueller has opened the channels for me at BMC but I'm holding back because I don't want my Uly sitting for weeks at the dealer if I get the order to turn it in for evaluation. Looks like I'll be dusting off the faithful old R100S with almost 200k warranty-and-recall-free miles on it and get it ready to be my primary ride if and when the ping fix happens. | ||
| Blake |
Davo, Do you know if the bike(s) of which you speak had their timing properly checked/set? Can you absolutely state that? Were they checked by anyone from the factory? Does the following apply to you and the others of whom you speak?
(Message edited by Blake on February 12, 2007) | ||
| Teeps |
Anonymous, I am encouraged by what you have posted here, and I have called Buell CR about the pining. I was advised to take my bike to the local Buell/H-D service department to have the timing checked and documented. But here's the problem with that: The dealer will have to take my word that the bike pings, as the engine does not "ping" every time the bike is ridden. And, the severity that my bike pings does not (anecdotally) seem as bad as others here have posted. I have today off, so I will see if California Buell/H-D can inspect my bike's timing today, as a ride in... if not it will have to wait for the BAS recall. Thanks for your help. | ||
| 55spy |
Why are does it seem Uly owners are the only ones really complaining about he pinging? | ||
| Cityxslicker |
mmmmm porsche speedster... the other toy that calls my name at nite, pity I dont have room in my garage for it. | ||
| Chadhargis |
I think we're seeing, yet again, the Achilles heel of Buell. The dealer network. I'm lucky that the service manager at my local dealer is knowledgeable about Buells. I've had my fair share of dealer woes, but now I know who to call, and I don't talk to anyone else at the shop. I hope you guys get the pinging issues worked out because the Ulysses is a wonderful bike. I'd be happy to let you ride mine as it runs flawlessly. | ||
| Anonymous |
Ihavemany, I apologize for mangling your handle, it was totally by mistake, not on purpose. Maybe my mind was subconsciously thinking: Ihavetoomanyincidentsofthis! Seriously, we are totally committed to finding an issue if there is one outside of timing. There is no defensiveness here, just facts as we know them. If there are more facts, we will find them. Please do keep working with us. Maybe some dealers have made mistakes; they are human too, and we will work to find out why the mistakes were made (unclear manuals, poor illustrations, whatever). There is nothing on a motorcycle that can't be fixed. So far all '07 XB products are very good, but our goals are to be considered among the best in the world. The only way we can improve quality is to attack every issue we hear about in a professional way using documented facts. We won't get everything right every time, but if we continue the path we have been on, we will get to the top of quality. | ||
| Chadhargis |
I think it's a wonderful thing that someone with Buell is posting on this board, but why keep it a secret? Why post as anonymous? I would think that the Buell brass would reward such "outside the box" customer service. Especially given how customer focused Buell seems to be. Anon, I'm glad you're here, and I'm sure that this topic has been discussed before, I just haven't been educated as to why the Anon ID is used versus something like "BMC-CSxxx" where xxx would be an ID number for that person at headquarters. If I had my guess, there is probably a lawyer behind it somewhere.  | ||
| Anonymous |
And you would be sooo right, Chad. | ||
| Davegess |
Ya gotta love those corporate attorney types Chad you can be sure that Blake keeps an eye on the Anon post to make sure they are legit. | ||
| Ihavemanyfleas |
Anony- thanks for the clarification. I think it's great to see your participation here. Forums can be a great place to interact with us riders, and it shows your dedication to us and our experience. | ||
| Dave |
Man oh man! What other motorcycle company brings you this kinda Customer Service!?! NONE. DAve | ||
| M2nc |
Make mine one that the dealer just retimed and fix at 1000 miles and even in 102°F has not pinged for the last 17,000 miles. Anon - I think the biggest problem I have seen is that not all dealerships have service managers and technicians trained to work on Buells. To my dealer's credit I have sent two different Buellers frustrated to the point of selling for a loss their bike and each time they fixed the bike right the first time and acted like it was no big deal. When I took my bike in for the 1000 mile service I told them the bike was pinging. I got it back and they said the timing was off and they reset the TPS. The bike had more power and the ping was gone. No big deal I thought until I read here about all my fellow Buellers still struggling with ping when my bike's problem has not returned. All I can say is if you are in central or eastern North Carolina check out Shelton's HD/Buell. | ||
| Jim_sb |
I have a "pinger". I tried to deal with the local Buell dealer - possibly the same used by XBimmer - and got a similar response. Murraebueller took the initiative to start the ball rolling with Buell Customer Service and I'm going to give them a call shortly. I just need to find a Saturday I can trash at the dealership because I don't have pickup/dropoff capability. Too far away. Anonymous, thanks for the info. It is encouraging. BTW, logically the "carboned up" cylinders doesn't make sense. Leaner is cleaner when it comes to deposits in combustion chambers. I would think a bike would have to be running rich for that to happen. As for "tweaking" or adjusting - my Uly is bone stock mechanically. I have set the pre-load for my weight and dialed in the compression/rebound damping. That's it. Regards, Jim in Santa Barbara | ||
| Court |
>>>>If I had my guess, there is probably a lawyer behind it somewhere You nailed it and the Anonymous posters (there are a gaggle more than you may think) are well vetted. There is some neat stuff happening and I suspect you'll see changes, but I'd suggest you follow closely the above advise. Court | ||
| Thunderbox |
I don't buy into the improved performance with the 07 airbox. If it added more power I am sure Buell would have loved to list HP as being higher and that is not the case. I have absolutely no problem with the performance of my Uly and I did at least 70% of my riding two up cross country. The only blip was the engine quiting and it looks like the BAS will correct that. i already got a call from my dealer telling me they may have found my problem and will fix it in the spring. As a mechanic I always say "if it ain't broke don't fix it". | ||
| Crusty |
Man oh man! What other motorcycle company brings you this kinda Customer Service!?! NONE. THAT is an accurate statement. |
