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Chinook
Posted on Wednesday, February 07, 2007 - 03:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Someone please help me.
To continue along these lines...
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/142 838/247336.html

Don't shoot the messenger, but I just spent a worthless hour at my dealer and they can't figure out how to flash my 2006 Stock Uly with stock ECM to the '07 to match my '07 airbox. They were guessing it has to do with hooking up to an '07 and then back to my '06 ECM, which it appears is what is going on per the prior post. They won't do it when I asked to use an '07 bike, claiming it would overwrite my VIN with the floor's '07 VIN.

At any rate, they gave up and warned me if I have it reflashed (elsewhere) with an '07 VIN i may be in for trouble when i bring it in for service when the VIN has changed.

So just so I'm squared away...

1. Reflashing my '06 won't change the VIN? Simply swapping it with the '07 allows the ECM to take the download?? Guessing this download overwrites some specs within the ECM, but not the baseline "bike specific identification info"? Can someone confirm/deny?

2. I won't have any trouble with my dealer down the road when they go to hook up my bike and read the reflashed ECM. I get the feeling if they run into any trouble, they will refuse to work on the bike and make me buy an new '06 ECM.

3. They want me to call Buell Cust. Service and verify this is legit and I don't screw myself down the road.

Ok gents, someone please reveal the truth before I ship it to Appleton Buell!

(Message edited by chinook on February 07, 2007)
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Flyor
Posted on Wednesday, February 07, 2007 - 07:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I can't offer any sort of help other than my HD dealer is about as useless. I'm still trying to get the 06 sidestand recall squared away...

I will tell you that I sent my ECM off to Dave at Appleton's. It was pretty quick, and even with shipping it was cheaper than my local HD place would have charged. You may want to re-consider going thru Dave. I'm a believer...

I like the screen name by the way. Do you fly them?
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Chinook
Posted on Wednesday, February 07, 2007 - 08:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Oh, I'm planning on sending it to Daves & successor....I'm just trying to verify what actually gets changed in the ECM.

No to the choppers. I wish!
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Birdmanrh
Posted on Wednesday, February 07, 2007 - 09:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

This issue was the last straw for me. The only thing that will get me back to the dealer will be a recall.
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Chinook
Posted on Thursday, February 08, 2007 - 01:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

so can anyone confirm / deny my #1 question above? i think i know the answer but want to avoid trouble in paradise
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Michael1
Posted on Thursday, February 08, 2007 - 01:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

From what I know, the flash does nothing when they were to hook it up to the Digital Tech. The flash has nothing to do with the other items in there.

Unless they reflash with the original 06 program, the 07 will always be there regardless.
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Flyor
Posted on Thursday, February 08, 2007 - 01:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Dave should be able to get you that answer. I think he has an "Ask Dave" section under Appleton's Sponsor Link. If nothing else, just ask him in the "Dave I need it now" thread. He's awesome about running down those questions in a very short time.
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Etennuly
Posted on Thursday, February 08, 2007 - 01:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I did not have to do it. I modified my '06 air box and it runs superbly. I was ready to do it if needed though.

What I've seen is that you need only a VIN number from any '07 Uly to get its ECM code. Then the '07 info is downloaded onto your '06 ECM. This will not hurt anything on your bike nor should it void any warranty.

In essence it is up dating your bikes emission information to the '07 standard. It seems that the only change from '06 to '07 was the air box, therefore a need to update fuel mixture codes in the ECM, which is what you need with the '07 air box.

In the future if your bike needs an ECM reload just use the '07 again.
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Bugnut
Posted on Thursday, February 08, 2007 - 02:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

As stated in my post, I ended up with the same crap from HD. I have since sent my ECM to Dave and re-installed. So far, no complaints, and if, IF HD says something, I'll plead total innocence. The bike runs better and mileage jumped back up to pre air box install. I still have a skip / stumble in the 3k range, but in a much narrower band than before. Like 3050 to 3150. Just rev'r up a bit! Good luck.
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Maximum
Posted on Thursday, February 08, 2007 - 03:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I have the '07 airbox, and just had Dave reflash my ecm this past week. First impression; smoother as I slowly accelerate from a stop, and when puttin' along during slow maneuvering. I didn't notice anything different in the 3k and up range, which if fine by me.
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Chrisb
Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 08:23 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

TPS reset required for this mod?
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Maximum
Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 08:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Nope, no TPS reset needed!

But 10 minutes or so riding in the mid rpm range seems to help the ecm learn and adjust to your bike.
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Gotj
Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 09:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

"Just to end the mad rumours, there are no different heads, nor is there any programming difference. "

This was posted my Anonymous in:

http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/142 838/257206.html

That means the reflash is unnecessary. My dealer checked with Daves and I was told that my VIN would be changed to an 07 VIN. That could mean warranty issues if they happened on the road but not with them. But, according to Anonymous,I don't need to and my limited riding, after the 10 miles of 3,000-4,000 rpm ECM reset riding, tells me it's so.
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Al_lighton
Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 10:22 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I've compared the XB12 06 and 07 maps cell for cell, and there are indeed differences. Not huge, but there are changes that would affect how the AFV will learn, and some that would reduce high throttle/high rpm pinging.

There's a thread that I started on that here somewhere.
Al
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Bearly
Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 12:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

So am I reading this right? My stock 2006 ecm cannot be reflashed? I just bought a Buell race ECM and I'm assuming that it can be reflashed?

BTW, Thanks Al_lighton for the help today on the phone. I learned a lot. Especially about the fact that my old VDTS Dongle won't speak well with my new Buell Race ECM. Thanks again.
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Bosh
Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 12:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

"Just to end the mad rumours, there are no different heads, nor is there any programming difference. "

Just another point of data: I changed to the 07 airbox and my fuel economy dropped from around 45 mpg to 34. Later on I had the 07 re-flash done to my ECM. Only ran one tank of gas through it but the mpg came up to 41 (all city driving). I need to go on a road trip to get a better idea on mpg but the bike does seem to run better with the re-flash.
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Chadhargis
Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 02:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Has anyone put their bike on a dyno to determine what the '07 airbox actually does?

If it only adds one or two HP, is it really worth it?
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Dave
Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 09:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Opening the air box by drilling some 1" holes or buying it for ~$37 ... if it did add 1-2 HP at the rear wheel ... then YES.

DAve
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Sanchez
Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 10:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I don't care how much horsepower my bike has (never thought I'd say that!) but I sure would love to fix the low rpm surging. Does the airbox/reflash combo do that?
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Birdmanrh
Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 11:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Maybe, but a proper TPS reset takes care of the surge. ;)
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Chinook
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 12:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I just shipped my ECM off to Appleton.
DaveS confirmed it does NOT change the VIN.

I gotta agree with Al above. I remember seeing a link and a HD/Buell manual indicating the new spec for the ECM.

Carry on!
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Al_lighton
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 01:39 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

A stock 06 ECM can be reflashed with a stock 07 calibration, but it takes an 07 VIN for the dealer to do it. The VIN needs to be entered into the digital tech for that to happen. This is all in the world of STOCK calibrations from the dealer.

Any domestic ECM, race or stock, can be reflashed with DirectLink. Note that only the maps (fuel and spark lookup tables) can be changed with Directlink. If there are algorithm changes in the 07 ECM that aren't in the 06 ECM, Directlink won't change that, but the Digital Tech upload probably does. We don't know if there are algorithm or other constant changes in the 07 ECM, can't see 'em. can't tell.
Al
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Teeps
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 10:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Sanchez Posted on Monday, February 12
I sure would love to fix the low rpm surging.

Does the airbox/reflash combo do that?



Birdmanrh Posted on Monday, February 12
Maybe, but a proper TPS reset takes care of the surge.


As this applies to my bike:
The low RPM (1500 to 2500rpm) surge was not eliminated... by the '07 airbox, '07 ECM reflash or TPS reset.
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Teeps
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 11:05 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

AL,

Will Direct Link ever have the ability to "knob-dick" the algorithms?
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Bosh
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 11:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

"As this applies to my bike:
The low RPM (1500 to 2500rpm) surge was not eliminated... by the '07 airbox, '07 ECM reflash or TPS reset."


+1
Made no difference on my bike either. All in all, I would not do it over again (07 air box + re-flash).
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Jmhinkle
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 02:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

-1
The '07 airbox totally transformed my bike below 3k RPM. Before, mine would surge badly and hiccup sometimes. I had to baby the throttle open or it would sputter and cough. Airbox alone made my bikes drive-ability 1000 times better, but I lost a good bit of MPG. As soon as I had a chance, my dealer (Murraebueller)did the reflash and my MPG came back. Not as good as before, but close. I was probably averaging 51-52MPG pre airbox and about 45-46 post airbox, then it went up to 49ish post flash. I've always made it clear that I felt it helped me more because of altitude and original lack of air that many at lower altitude might not see. If I had to do it over again, it would be worth $300 for the part instead of the $30 it cost.
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Flyor
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 03:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

No MPG data for me yet (just got it back together). But I do notice a smoother "feeling" at lower RPM and my low RPM surging, while never very bad, was all but eliminated. Considering the ease of the swap out and the low cost, I' d' definitely do it again...
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Al_lighton
Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 02:05 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I sure wouldn't count on it. Lookup tables are one thing to modify, algorithms are in a whole other league. I'd even wonder what the IP infringements would be once you start messing around at that level.

Al
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Cujo
Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 10:01 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I have the Race ECM and exhaust.

If I change to the '07 airbox do I need the reflash?

Can anyone with the race ECM, exhaust and '07 airbox tell me how their mileage has been affected?

Thanks for the help.
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Red_chili
Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 02:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

No MPG data for me yet (just got it back together). But I do notice a smoother "feeling" at lower RPM and my low RPM surging, while never very bad, was all but eliminated. Considering the ease of the swap out and the low cost, I' d' definitely do it again...
+1, The '07 airbox/no reflash did this for my bike as well, @5280 ft.
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Alchemy
Posted on Tuesday, April 03, 2007 - 04:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Background:

06 Uly with 07 airbox cover. Dealer reflashed ECM using 07 bike VIN to get the 07 code. I also had the BAS recall performed and TPS reset.

Question: Does it make a difference if the TPS is reset before or after the reflash? I don't think so but I am asking.

IMO the airbox had the greatest effect on the intake noise. It has a throatier sound now. Can't note much change in performance. I still get a "pop" out of the airbox at low speeds occasionally.

Too soon to comment on mileage.
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Alchemy
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 11:39 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

So I take it the TPS reset is not needed when the reflash is done. Bump.
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Teeps
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 03:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Correct, long as the ECM was paired to the throttle position sensor before the "flash" was done.
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Alchemy
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 05:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thanks, I hope to understand a little more about setting the TPS and how it all fits together eventually.
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Packdog
Posted on Saturday, June 02, 2007 - 03:32 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hopefully this info isn't too late - but at least it will be in the archives.

When reflashing an 06 with the 07 airbox mod, all you have to do is change the 6th digit of the VIN. That's the digit of the VIN that designates what year the bike is. So, for an 06, it will be a 6, for an 07 it will be a 7.

When reflashing, use the VIN of your own bike, just change the 6th digit from a 6 to a 7 when you enter it into the Digital Tech. This will trick the Digital Tech into reflashing with the 07 data.

I have only performed this on 2 bikes so far, but both updates were successful.
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