| Author | Message | ||
     Maximum |
I was quoted 3 hours ($60/hr). Is that about right? | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I would say that the job would run the same as changing out your front fork fluid. Three hours seems high, but I don't know. Ask them what they charge for the 10,000 mile fork oil change and see what they quote. It would at least give you a reference or a point of negotiation. | ||
| Daves |
that sounds about right You'll have those that chime in and say they can do it themselves in 15 minutes. | ||
| Stevenknapp |
You'll have those that chime in and say they can do it themselves in 15 minutes. Not me. 3hrs seems about right for a pro. If they are doing a tire change or other front end work, maybe a bit less. I just did the service and have about 2-3hrs in the job (not done yet) and $60 in special tools I needed. Plus the $30 for the fork cap because I didn't buy the tools first. | ||
| Danger_dave |
Why would you want to? | ||
| Maximum |
"Why would you want to?" Progressive rate springs "Revised front fork springs improve handling and rider comfort" Buell News - July 14th, 2006. If Erik and his engineers thought that it was worth changing, then I'm all for giving it a try. | ||
| Rocketsprink |
How much are the new springs? Having my bike lowered by Trackside and I figure may as well "upgrade". | ||
| Danger_dave |
Hmmm maybe, I'm a big fan of front end upgrades generally. Have previously installed Race tech progressive rate springs and Ohlins single rate springs and cartridge emulators on my Triumph motorcycles and noticed sod-all difference (for road use) between spring rates when the bike was properly set up. I'm well pleased with the performance of the front end now. Honestly see no need of the expense. Keep us posted, I thought I may have been wrong once before, but was mistaken. dd | ||
| Stevenknapp |
For those asking the "why" there was a pretty long thread about the differences including some answers from the factory. | ||
| Dave |
Yeah this was hashed out before -- I forget the specs but basically add a bit more fork oil (reducing air) and it'll firm 'em up a bit. I went with Racetechs on my S3 but I'll try the added oil on my Uly. DAve | ||
| Buellish |
We put Extra Heavy SE fork oil in mine at the 10,000 mile service.It removed most of the dive,but is pretty harsh over rough bumps. I have the Lightning Long shock to lower the rear with and risers to raise the legs. When I do the lowering mods I'm going to pull the forks and either change the oil to Heavy or talk to Traxxion Dynamics about their straight rate springs. | ||
| Danger_dave |
I have an extra line of pre-load or 2 not showing and a 1/4 turn extra damping....what 'dive'? I just don't notice it. Even rode around yesterday looking for it. Grabbing random handfulls of front. Nada to worry moi. But FWIW I don't have any problem with the turning circle either.  dd (Message edited by danger_dave on January 28, 2007) | ||
| Buellish |
Coming off an R1100S with an Ohlins dampend Paralever front fork.I noticed a tremendous amount of dive.Like my S2,only more travel to dive into. I plan on fixing the S2 as well. | ||
| Danger_dave |
But then fixed rate springs are less likely to dive than progressives. ?? My guru says that is why they 'squat' when you nail it - the 'soft' part of the rear spring compresses till it hits the firmer winding. Someone explain how this works in the front then? | ||
| Birdmanrh |
Danger_dave, don't even try. LOL It's new, so it must be better....right? BTW, this change did solve a problem, just not one that all riders had.... | ||
| Danger_dave |
>>BTW, this change did solve a problem, just not one that all riders had....<< It's just like the front tyre. Some of the ADV guys thought I was sniffing glue when I went ballistic about that probleeem. My 06 front end is near perfect, the stock seat fits just fine and the fan doesn't annoy me. I also think the standard screen is too BIG! I'd like some more rear preload, better headlights and an easier way to get the wirework for the luggage on and off however. dc | ||
| Buellish |
The '06 springs are fixed rate.The springs Traxxion will install would be stiffer. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I also think the standard screen is too BIG! I'm so glad to hear someone else say that! I thought I was the only one with 12S fairing envy. I am ashamed I am so shallow. I am willing to endure neck thickening head wind and chest pressure in order to not have to put a larger screen on it. It's too tall to have an S or SX fairing on the front. It would look like a big guy with a tiny head. | ||
| Jmhinkle |
"I have an extra line of pre-load or 2 not showing and a 1/4 turn extra damping....what 'dive'? I just don't notice it. Even rode around yesterday looking for it. Grabbing random handfulls of front. Nada to worry moi. But FWIW I don't have any problem with the turning circle either. dd" I definitely don't have a problem with turning circle, and my sidecases have proof of it, but I have never been able to remove the front end dive. Mine is drastic to the point of seeming exagerated. I barely touch the brakes and half the suspension is compressed. Any normal braking and the bike feels like I'm doing a stoppie. I bought the '07 springs, but have yet to do them (no time). I wonder if I will find mine low on oil when I get them open or something. I've had another Uly rider comment on how bad mine dives. I've also found that if I run with the suspension set for my weight the rear end wants to slide out entering curves. If I run 1 setting softer it handles great otherwise. And it is nice and comfy on my dirt road. I still love the bike no matter. | ||
| Windrider |
I have an 06 with the stock springs and I think that the front of my bike dives excessively during heavy braking. Occasionally I make panic stops to avoid deer and I can pretty much bottom the fork out during these manuevers. I can live with and have re calibrated to it, but I don't like it. I will probably upgrade to the new springs during my 10K for service. To my way of thinking and my experiences with the Uly and other bikes Buell was right in going to progressive rate springs in the 07 models. | ||
| Stevenknapp |
Windrider, search up the earlier discussions on this. The anon posters comments IMHO stated that the 06 forks properly set up (fork oil within 1mm of spec) were as good as the 07. But the new springs allowed the fork oil specs to be much wider in range (+/-5mm?) with the same effect. Again, IMHO, such behavior would be why some don't have the problem and others do. | ||
| Brad1445 |
I look forward to moving up to the 2007 springs in my 2006. Those whose driving styles do not tax the limits of the 06, good for you. For the rest of us and everyone after 2006 we can be truthful without filling disloyal. Unless you think Buell is downgrading the bikes as they go and not improving? | ||
| Birdmanrh |
Improving a Bike for sales is not the same as improving a bike for performance. | ||
| Danger_dave |
>>Those whose driving styles do not tax the limits of the 06, good for you. << Hey I didn't mean to offend anyone - just wondering why? - let me offer these qualifiers to my comments. I ride for a living. I freelance as art director and am one of the 3 testers for a national motorcycle magazine. I ride everything. All brands, all types, all the time. And i flog 'em (and i occasionally crash them from pushing too hard.) I prefer the XB12X as my own bike and often ride it in preference to more 'exotic' machines that may be in my possession. I have as good a comparison base as anyone. My riding buddies have national and world championship racing credentials and I happily ride social pace with them. Occasionally I push the Buell to my limits over some of the most demanding roads in NZ (and that is saying something) with seemingly endless corners over rugged mountain ranges at a pace that sees no chicken strips on the back tyre - as hard as any...and I have not noticed the front end dive excessively, ever. Some peoples do - others dont. Just like the tyre thing. weirderer and weirederer huh. dd | ||
| Stevenknapp |
Unless you think Buell is downgrading the bikes as they go and not improving? Did you read this? http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/142 838/228839.html Specifically "The functional difference between perfectly set up 2006 & 2007 systems may not be huge, but the impact of variation in the oil level could be." | ||
| Jmhinkle |
Danger, I noticed you said excessively. Do you consider the amount of dive you have normal or just acceptable? Or are you saying that you have no dive unless in a panic stop situation? Maybe some of us have different ideas of the amount of dive that is acceptable. The more I read and look back at our previous discussion of this, I really think that mine is low on oil. Put it this way. If I roll off the throttle at 40 MPH my front end dives 2" instantly. I know Buell's don't have that much engine braking. If I'm coming to a stop light from 45MPH and apply my brakes in a normal fashion with the rest of traffic I bet I have 80 to 90% compression of the front end. I think Windrider is in the same boat as me. We seem to be the extreme examples, which is really making me question if I have any oil in there at all. I will have to make the spring swap a priority now just to determine the current oil level. | ||
| Danger_dave |
Honestly till reading this thread the notion of the front end diving had not occurred to me. I love the way it all works since I installed the sync. Nothing abnormal at all - just plush long travel suspension that makes neat stunts a treat. Only done one crash stop and it was fine. I locked up the front wheel going in too hot. Stood it up, puckered and prayed - all good. Didn't notice the front end then either. Sorry to hear you guys are having trouble - frustrating in such a wonderful bike. | ||
| Brad1445 |
I myself did not meant to make it sound like a large issue, but it is one for me that I noticed almost immediately after purchasing a Ulysses. In direct comparison to my 04 XB9S and 0 XB12R the difference is very clear. Also compared to the other bikes I own, that I seam to favor the Sport bike side most. Since its a simple fix I will combine with the Fork Oil Change I consider it an affordable upgrade that eliminates a small problem. Now if you want me to ge going about a real problem talk to me about 'fan noise' | ||
| Birdmanrh |
JMHinkle, I would have that oil level checked, that does not sound right at all. | ||
| Danger_dave |
>>Now if you want me to ge going about a real problem talk to me about 'fan noise'<< Wear an iPod and if it worries you when people look at it after you park, ask them 'Do you need to dry your hair'. Everyone smiles. | ||
| Buellish |
"Sorry to hear you guys are having trouble" I wouldn't call it trouble.Just a small thing to work out.Its by far the best bike I've owned in 39 years or riding. "Now if you want me to ge going about a real problem talk to me about 'fan noise'" I tell people,I allways bring my vacume cleaner in case I need to do any light cleaning. | ||
| Danger_dave |
cool - and yeah me too - and about 40 years as well. | ||
| Red_chili |
I'd have to say that a few cc's of oil would have to be of the most expensive oil known to mankind, to compare unfavorably to $180 labor plus new springs. Old dirtbiker here, I'm very used to small oil level variations making huge differences. Very common tuning strategy, once the basic spring rate is sorted (which it is on the Uly)... For instance, on the XR650R, 5mm of oil height is quite noticeable. Going from 5W to 2.5W is also quite noticeable. I would be very reluctant to make up inadequate preload or oil volume with extra heavy fork fluid. It's not fixing the problem, it's changing something completely different. By the time you back off the compression and rebound damping to be correct for the spring rate you're right back where you started (if you can even do that with extra heavy oil, that is). As far as the progressives being an upgrade, it seems to me (based on anony's posts) that what they did is alter the setup to allow greater manufacturing tolerances for a more consistent user experience. Which is to say, a properly set up '06 and a properly set up '07 front end will perform... IDENTICALLY. The '07 will simply have a greater tolerance for oil volume variation, that's all. If the spring static sag and race sag is correct for your bike's weight and for your weight, the spring rate is simply correct. If you have too much dive with this spring rate, increase the oil volume (decrease the air volume), it is that simple. Do NOT futz with the oil weight if you are able to adjust the damping to be correct for conditions, you won't be happy and your wheel will not track the surface (and you may have some scary experiences in the stutterbumps). (Message edited by Red_Chili on January 31, 2007) | ||
| Etennuly |
Jmhinkle, I have no problems with my Uly front diving. But yours sounds like a warranty issue. I had a new XL 250 years ago that had what I saw as a "flat" front end. I took it back to the dealer wherein they found that one fork had no oil at all in it. No leak, just no oil from the factory. It was riding as you describe that yours does. They fixed it with just oil. |
