| Author | Message | ||
     Bugnut |
My local dealer (Brandon H-D, Fl.) can't figure out how to reflash my 06 ECM. I've scoured this forum, and told them of the instructions I've found, but no luck. They even stated it's illegal to reflash an ECM with an 07 VIN specs because to H-D it's now an 07. Short of sending it to someone out of state, and being down or living with the constant 3k surging, I'm SOL. Has anyone had this problem? My dealer is overall great  - they really support the product, but are antsy about the 07 change up. On a good note - thanks to everyone who posts on this forum. It's been a huge wealth of information and advise on my Uly purchase. 6700 miles in 6 months, and this is the only problem I've had with the bike. Not even the dreaded headlight burnout yet!  | ||
| Michael1 |
Just talked to my local dealer last night. They iniatially said it couldn't be done. But after calling the Buell Tech line, they found out they could, using the 07 VIN. This was straight from the service managers mouth. He learned something as well. Maybe suggest they call Buell tech line and see??? | ||
| Daves |
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| Red_chili |
Technically... I would guess it *is* illegal. So are aftermarket pipes. So is running knobbies on the street. How do I sleep at night???  | ||
| Birdmanrh |
Yea, same stupidity I ran into at two area dealers... Buell seriously needs to get dealers that are interested in selling their motorcycles. Not just getting dealers that want to pick up a few extra bucks from those "sportbike guys." Either that or take 2K off the bikes and sell them as DIY kits.... | ||
| Birdmanrh |
Red_chili, There is nothing illegal about it at all. You are not changing the VIN of the vehicle, you are changing which fuel map the vehicle uses....that's it! It could be boiled down to using a different air filter or spark plug. | ||
| Ulendo |
direct analogy - its NOT illegal to change the jets in a carb. the ONLY possible issue is if you have to pass emissions tests, and since AFAIK any/all of the factory maps do that, the 'illegal'line is total dealer BS I'd almost be willing to bet those same dealers would install jetted screaming eagle carbs on any HD you care to throw their way though..... | ||
| Etennuly |
Pok'em in the eye with a sharp stick!  | ||
| Stevenknapp |
Illegal? Sure, rejetting the bike might be if it wasn't going to meet EPA specs, but the 07 map meets EPA specs. It's more than legit. I'd pull the ECU and send it to Dave S.  | ||
| Murraebueller |
It's not illegal- the '07 inner airbox with the stock filter and '07 reflash still meets EPA standards as far as I know. I did the conversion on my '06. A little more intake noise and a little more hit on the top. The reflash ran into my '06 ECM just fine without needing an '07 VIN number. Where do you live? You can bring it here and I'll reflash it for free- takes about 10 minutes. Tough to do without the bike though- you need the external connector to hook up to the digital tech. You should call Buell and ask if you can send it to them- they used to do reflashes for the tuber ECMs when there was an upgrade available. They didn't charge anything but you pay the shipping there. Worth a call. | ||
| Daves |
Yep, that's why we charge 32.50 to do it. We have to grab a 07 Buell, unhook the ecm,hook yours up,do the download(which is free) and then unhook yours,hook up the stock on on the 07 and put the bike back away. We charge a 1/2 hour to do it all. | ||
| Murraebueller |
As usual, Dave is there with the right stuff. We can probably help out some westerners as well. 1/2 hour sounds right. Merry Christmas Dave- missed you at the rally- we're planning on doing something again in '07, probably in the Toas/Santa Fe area. Want to book the guest room? Murrae  | ||
| Daves |
Geesh, if we come to Taos again we might find another dog! Wish we would've had time to stop in Santa Fe and see you again. | ||
| Krassh |
I think i will be sending Dave my ECM as when I inquired at the dealer they wanted the half hour plus about $180.00 for the download!!! | ||
| Daves |
180.00 for a download they get for free seems fair  | ||
| Teeps |
Daves service rocks! My Ulysses' ECM was at Appleton Buell/H-D for less than 8 hours, getting reflashed. For me, shipping the ECM to Dave was easier and took less time, than: A. making an appointment (2 weeks) B. making arrangements to ge home after delivering the bike to the dealer. C. leaving the bike there 3 days. D. finding a ride back to the dealer to pick it up. | ||
| Chris_in_tn |
Daves, is this reflash available for the 06 race ECM? | ||
| Etennuly |
You can do the '06 re-flash, but the whole point is to get the '07 flash for matching the '07 air box modification air flow, or the '06 hack'er open program. I hacked mine and I love it! I did not need the '07 flash.  | ||
| Wademan |
Are the 07 bikes smoother below 3K in first gear than the 06??? That is my only issue with the bike, is the low speed surging, it makes traffic a bitch. God I hope this is the fix cause this is alot cheaper than finding a race can, ecu, and filter. | ||
| Teeps |
Wademan posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 Are the 07 bikes smoother below 3K in first gear than the 06??? My '06 Ulysses with '07 airbox and flash is not much different down low. Still surges, unacceptably, but I've made my peace with it... | ||
| Daves |
Chris, No, it is for stock ecms | ||
| Etennuly |
The first gear surge below 3000 rpm is just a build up of excessive torque wanting to escape. I had experienced a surge like yours with my City-X. It went away when I had the ECM re-flashed and the TPS reset. They were both out of spec and because of that they were done under warranty. My '06 Uly has never done the surge thing and I have ridden a few '07's including a Uly with no surge. | ||
| Davo |
3K surge is due to high timing numbers. TPS 10 at 3K results in advance as much as 60 degrees! I have run logs with VDSTS on the road and been able to track the surge on the graph. It is a clear timing spike at 29-31K @ 9-11 TPS. The timing maps are wound tighter than a ten day clock! I would prefer a CAT in the pipe rather than the mock CAT between my valves. | ||
| Blake |
Gobal warming may be due to high timing numbers. | ||
| Outrider |
Blake...Only Al Gore knows the answer to that assumption.  | ||
| Treadmarks |
Blake...Only Al Gore knows the answer to that assumption. And he keeps it in a little box. A little locked box. And only he has the key...  | ||
| Red_chili |
Well... FAIK the EPA certification is for a particular combination of components. So, technically, change the airbox, it's not certified. Certainly using a catch can is not certified. Change the map for that VIN and likewise. Never mind that it may meet the numbers. You've got a government to support here. Never mind no one enforces it. Or can. In Cali a 240Z, dirty as all get-out, mistuned, etc. passed inspection because they had all the OE stuff. A company put sidedrafts on, tuned within a gnat's eyebrow, clean as a whistle... and illegal. Failed inspection even though it polluted LESS. My point being... I simply don't care. Do what runs right! (Message edited by Red_Chili on December 21, 2006) | ||
| Mesafirebolt |
Does the re-flash work on '05 12R and S's as well? Like most of you I have always had the surge, mines way bad, I've had the TPS reset but didn't help. I cut my airbox open like an 07 and there has been no change. Same surge, same place. (Message edited by mesafirebolt on December 22, 2006) | ||
| Davo |
You can reduce the surge by retarding the timing a few degrees but if you are not pinging I would live with the surge. The surge is timing and not fuel. | ||
| Murraebueller |
Ask the dealer you bought it from to check the timing on a digital tech. We saw some early bikes with incorrectly set timing from the factory and when corrected the surging/pinging went away. Just a thought. Murrae | ||
| Davo |
I used the fuel pump method to time it and I also verified it by reading CPS voltage with a DVOM. After that I checked it dynamically with a variable light. I wish Buell would put a light on one so they would see the jump from the initial static setting. The curves are radical but I think with the appropriate cam timing and duration it should work. It appears others are not having the same problems. I have talked directly with CS and I wrote a letter to them a month ago. I am still waiting for a response. I want to keep the bike but at this time I don't even feel right dumping it on someone else. As much as I love the bike I don't recommend it to the faint of heart. Can anyone answer this question? Where should the dynamic timing be on the flywheel if the ECM requires 0(zero) advance? | ||
| Murraebueller |
The digital tech is the only way to be absolutely sure- I'll check a manual when I go to the shop tomorrow and see if there are marks you can use. On the tubers, the moment the trigger clicks and jumps to 5 volts the mark should be dead center in the window. Don't know about the XBs. Let me check the book. Murrae | ||
| Davo |
Should be the same for the Xb's. CPS goes to 5.2V @ TDC. I checked it and it is exactly the same time that the fuel pump cycles. According to my calculations the answer to my question is 7-9 degrees. Buell CS representative indicated that they should know the answer but they did not know. That was on October 2nd. My point is that what ever the answer is you must add digital tech advance or VDSTS numbers to the initial setting in order to know what the actual ignition timing is doing while the engine is running. The numbers are very tall @ 2.9-3.1K/TPS 9-11. | ||
| Murraebueller |
It is the same for the XBs- as the timing mark for the front cylinder (the single vertical mark) hits the center of the window exactly, the voltage should jump to 5. I've been told by factory tech folks in the past and verified through experience that the Buell motors do not like anything other than exact timing as per factory spec. I still advise using a digital tech to verify simply because we solved several pinging issues this way. We used to take a reading off the signal wire from the CPS but the tech is easier. I always try to remember the KISS rule. Too bad you don't live near here.You could always forward the info here and let us check with tech services instead of CS. Merry Christmas. Murrae | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Murraebuller, Should a ULY owner with a bike under warranty be charged for this timing check on the digital tech? How long does it take to do the check? | ||
| Murraebueller |
Electraglider- The flat rate book indicates it's about 1/2 hour. That makes it somewhere between $30 and $50 depending on your dealer's flat rate. Checking the timing is also part of the 10k service.We started checking them during setup after we discovered issues but have stopped that practice as we haven't seen any issues since April of this year. We do check them at the 1000mile service even though it's not on the schedule if the customer has an issue. If the bike is under warranty and it comes to this dealership with an issue that could be related to timing, it is checked, corrected if necessary, and a warranty claim is filed. Hopefully most Buell dealers out there would do the same. So in a nutshell and IMHO= 1/2 hour at no charge if the bike is under warranty and has "driveability issues". Bear in mind that the bikes meet 2008 CARB emissions standards without catalytic conceverters. That makes engine timing, temperature and fueling critical. Many emissions tests are done at "hot" (fully up to temp) idle and highway speeds (read light/ medium load, partial throttle, steady speed- low/midrange). Since "clean" tends to mean "lean" these days, a slight misadjustment in either fuel, timing or temperature can cause pinging and surging due to the inherent heat increase. Sudden load increases can also contribute to the problem. I'm sure that's also why the fans the Uly seem to run more often. We also need to remember that the bikes are after all under warranty for two years with unlimited mileage. Your emissions warranty (anything in the system that affects emissions) is 5 years and something like 18,240 miles (30,000 kilometers.) Sorry for the long wind. I hope you figure out the problem. Merry Christmas Murrae |
