| Author | Message | ||
     Electraglider_1997 |
Over a month ago I had my ULY ecm reflashed to 07' but they did it with an 07' Lightning Long program. The ULYs quit selling so they didn't order any more of them but they did get in a 07 Long. Daves, is the 07' Long ecm the same as the 07' ULY ecm? I ask this because my idle has never been the same since this was done. Yesterday they hooked my bike up to the Digital Technician and it checked out that there was no intake leak. Once my bike gets good and warmed up it takes its sweet time coming down to idle. Runs great other than that. | ||
| Daves |
sounds like they need to set the TPS and adjust the idle correctly. I'll go ask if there are different maps but I think they are the same. I'll be back in a little while. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Thank you. | ||
| Daves |
They are all the same map. | ||
| Etennuly |
Generally people here have found that your idle speed needs to be around 1000 to 1050, any higher and they tend to hang or float down when you release the throttle. | ||
| Stevenknapp |
I found that when resetting the TPS (if you do it yourself) that you can adjust the idle angle to what the book says (5.4deg?) and things tend to be OK. The bike seems able to adjust the idle a bit on it's own, probably with ignition timing. If the idle adjust is too low cold starting can be bad. If it's too high you get that "hang" you're describing. In both cases the idle can be within spec once warmed up. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Thanks to all for the information. | ||
| Daves |
Anytime  | ||
| Davo |
The ECM advance goes to zero at 307F. I think the factory claims it is at 320F but the ECM's that I have checked are 307F. Prior to that ET the advance is stepped up as much as 20 degrees which makes the idle float higher. There are other factors that would create a floating idle. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Davo, My bike's idle floats the worse when it is real hot. I gage this knowledge on my oil tank temp reading which reads 180 or higher when the engine is really warmed up. I've got my homemade meat thermometer dipstick in the swingarm tank. One thing that might be part of the problem is that I opened up the airbox cover myself and it is not an 07' airbox cover. Maybe that is part of the problem. It has the right side holes of the 06' and the 07' holes on the left that I added. Hot air on right and cooler air on the left. (Message edited by electraglider_1997 on December 20, 2006) | ||
| Daves |
I don't think that is the problem. Have them do the TPS Have them set the idle at 1050 Lots of us chopped up airboxes on our 9s and didn't have any idle problems. Others run the Open Airbox and do not have problems. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Daves, thanks. | ||
| Etennuly |
I run a many holed '06 box and it runs superbly without the '07 flash. Idle set at approx 1025 fully warmed up. | ||
| Bobbuell1961 |
Etennuly. i back you up.i have 6 2"holes drilled in my 06 box w/ a k+n, stock calabration. bike runs fantastic!once in blue moon she'll fart in the morning when she'se cold but that's it. Bob | ||
| Davo |
Electroglider 1997, Daves is correct, the TPS and idle speed setting is the first step. Find out what the AFV reading is when you do the TPS reset. A AFV around 110 might indicate an intake leak which will cause floating. Surging at 3K is a timing characteristic. Others will tell you it is fueling but it is my opinion that there are early timing spikes right around TPS 10 and 29-31K. This is a combination that indicates low load highway cruise. I am running 7-9 degrees early and my AFV is 100 which is a perfect burn. I speculate that some ULy's have excessive compression. If your bike doesn't ping at stock settings then you are in the clear. If you are having any surging I would ride the bike for about five minutes on level ground at 50 mph and do not vary the throttle at all during the five minutes. This will permit your ECM to learn a new AFV if it is needed. | ||
| Blake |
"I speculate that some ULy's have excessive compression." Ever measure the compression of your Uly? | ||
| Blake |
If so, what was it?  | ||
| Murraebueller |
Davo has some great ideas, although I haven't seen "excessive compression" I've also never had any pinging issues with any of my Buells including one that is running 11:1. Bear in mind that the AFV is going to change with altitude just like compression ratio and engine performance parts. An AFV of 100 is only "perfect" under very specific conditions. The proper way to set your AFV is to ride at 2800-3200 RPM with less that 20% throttle position at a steady pace for several miles on level ground. At least that's the way is was taught by smarter people than me for the tubers and I've confirmed that it works with the XBs as well. Here at 7500', most stock bikes run at 84%-88% with no issues. This seems to be concurrent with the natural power loss due to altitude- "around 3% per thousand feet above 500 feet above sea level"- 21% here. Blake- I seem to remember 180 psi at sea level, but it's been awhile since I've done it. It's definitely lower at higher altitude. Physics-go figure  Murrae | ||
| Murraebueller |
BTW- My S3 with 11:1 and many performance parts runs an AFV of 132% at sea level. No intake leaks and a front wheel thqat likes to be in the air. Murrae | ||
| Davo |
Blake, I have not pulled the engine down yet to measure the ratio. I will do a simple compression check and post the results asap. After checking all the input and output devices and reviewing the dynamic parameters the only factor left is compression. Due to cam duration and valve overlap I think the only way to be certain is to cc the heads and cylinders. Another clue is that fuel additives will clean up the pinging. This would explain why there are a select few cases of severe pinging as well. The solution will require pulling the jugs and removing some squish and/or relieving the heads. I will keep you posted. | ||
| Red_chili |
Shadetree idea here: stacking headgaskets? OK, OK, don't shoot me. Just sayin'. | ||
| Murraebueller |
Does the motor have an oil consumption issue? On another thread here a rider is dealing with the same issue and found carbon in the combustion chambers. | ||
| Treadmarks |
Shadetree idea here: stacking headgaskets? HA..Hardcore shadetree ya mean.  Carbon deposits on the piston, in the chamber and on the valves can contribute to hi compression related pinging. I have not seen the chamber on a thunderstorm head yet, but any sharp edges or casting flash in the chamber area can also cause the pinging. (Message edited by TREADMARKS on December 22, 2006) | ||
| Davo |
Murraebueler, 44mag was using oil. We have communicated on this issue for the last nine months. My bike is not using oil but I have been running late for about 5000 miles now to avoid pinging. The oil consumption was a result of high combustion chamber temps and therefore and increased cylinder/piston temps. We thought there might be a map problem but others have the same parameters on their ECMs so I looked at all the sensors and the only thing left is compression. It would explain excessive fan operation as compared to other Xb's and Xb12x's. My fan still runs with a right side scoop! That means my rear head temps will hit 428F after riding 20 minutes in 50 F degree weather. If you put some race fuel in my bike it would sprout wings! | ||
| Davo |
Red Chili, I plan to shim the bottom of the cylinders up and maybe even relieve the heads if the numbers are too radical. Which is very similar to the shade tree fix. | ||
| Murraebueller |
Davo- Hope you figure it out. The fan running with the side scoop may be an indicator, although I've had mine come on after running 95+ mph for 5 miles in 30 degree weather (no right side scoop). Goes off within seconds of getting off the highway and slowing down. I do remember hearing from someone at the factory that the '06 and later bikes may experience more fan operation due to needing to keep the bikes closer to optimal running temps to meet the new EPA standards. As far as cylinder pressure goes, the shop manual says 120psi or more. The techs here say 140 + or - is an average they have seen. When the roads here clear a little I'll bring mine in and check it and report. It still sounds like a timing issue to me- since you've checked everything else, have you tried simply swapping ECMs with someone who has a bike without the issues? We have replaced one ECM in a XB12X here- first time in eight years of servicing Buells. It cured several issues and there were no codes- just a gut feeling. Merry Christmas. Murrae |
