| Author | Message | ||
     44mag2 |
I am looking for a true dirt bike to supplement my ULY. Whats the best way to go? | ||
| Etennuly |
What kind of dirt riding do you plan to do??? Trail, racing, mountains, flat land, mud, dry, sand, rocks, need lights, need street legal, a whole lot depends on what you want it for.  | ||
| Krassh |
Get a KTM the new 2007 EXC's are street legal from the factory. I have a 2002 KTM 520EXC and I love it, plus it is street legal. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
If you're looking for really technical, I'd go light. Otherwise, the new KLR looks attractive, the XR650L is a perennial favorite, and I've heard rumors of the Yamaha XT660 being imported to Canada in '08. Any of the KTMs would be good. The Husky TE510 looks intriguing and it got great reviews. | ||
| Lowflyer |
I'd go for something with knobby tires. | ||
| Ejc |
If motocross is part of the equation, I'd recommend the Kawasaki KX450. I'm very pleased with mine. After tweaking the compression dampening a bit,( a click less in the front and a click more in the rear), she handles very nicely. She corners well and absorbs bumps and rough landings very well. I've done nothing else to the bike. There's enough power for my 6'1'' 165lbs. intermediate self. The '07 has a fifth gear making it more versatile if your going to do offroad stuff. For dual sport, I had a DR350 I hated to get rid of. Alas, I had to make room in the garage for my Uly. | ||
| 44mag2 |
I will be riding mostly in the mountains, with some dunes. I think that I want a very light bike ... I don't care about street legal, since I have my Uly. Do they still sell 2 stroke engines? If so, what are the pro's and cons of 2 vs. 4 stroke? I used to have a DR650, and it was way to heavy for my rising skills. It was pretty good for my crashing skills though.  | ||
| Jim_sb |
Well there are dirt bikes then there are dirt bikes........ IMHO the best bang for the buck in a 'real' dirt bike these days is the Suzuki DRZ400S. Yes, I have one. My buddies have XR650's, KTM525's, Husky 610, Husky 510, Husky 450, etc. and quite frankly for "typical" trail riding in the desert, sand, mountains, single track, two track, fire roads, rocks, etc., etc. the DRZ is very capable. The DRZ is: 1. Lower maintenance 2. Equal or better fuel efficiency 3. Less costly to buy and outfit. The KTM and Husky bikes are more capable IF you have the skills to make it so. Yes, I have ridden them all. The Huskys have a HD rigid vibration issue going on that is absent from the KTM's and Suzuki. The KTM though is the least maintenance friendly of the bunch. No bad choices are out there, all are good bikes. YOU must decide what YOU want in a bike then go get it. I confined my comments to street legal dirt bikes because we do a lot of that sort of thing out here. Good luck, Jim in Santa Barbara | ||
| Red_chili |
I will be riding mostly in the mountains, with some dunes. I think that I want a very light bike ... I don't care about street legal, since I have my Uly. Do they still sell 2 stroke engines? If so, what are the pro's and cons of 2 vs. 4 stroke? If that is the case, and you have some bucks, the recommendation above for the KTM EXCs is a good one. The 300 EXC is a superb woods bigbore (yeah, I know, to a thumper guy 300cc is not big bore, but in a two stroke... it most definitely is). Monster torque, excitement when it comes on the pipe. Plateable in CO, not sure about your area. Don't underestimate the usefulness of a plate on a dirtbike. If you are cheep, I ride a KDX220 which is great cheap fun, lightweight, and a very decent woods bike. In their infinite wisdom Kwaki decided to drop the 220, leaving only the 200 now (also very good, just a tad pipier). Two strokes take a different technique, more clutch work rather than throttle work to modulate speed. Ringdings tend to be snappier, tend to be lighter, and tend to require annual re-ringing and in some models new pistons (not a big deal at all to do, though, don't let that put you off). Thumpers require valve adjustments, the higher performance ones also require annual re-ringing and occasional pistons as they shaved a lot of weight off the piston and everything else to make them perform. Generally you need twice the thumper displacement for the same given HP as a ringding, more or less. I like 'em both. (Message edited by Red_Chili on November 30, 2006) | ||
| Krassh |
I agree if you are looking at mostly mountain riding and want a nice light dirt bike the KTM 300EXC is a great choice. Plenty of info on KTMTALK.com, you could probably even find a good used 300 on there in your neck of the woods. | ||
| Slowride |
I have a YZ250 2 stroke, it is slightly modified and sprung pretty soft for my weight. It has great power and torque. It is like riding a bull blind folded. It has tried to throw me more times than I care to admit. I weigh 255lbs and I stand 5’10” tall. This bike is a monster, one quick twist of the throttle and it get all up in my grill. I typically can ride it about 1 hour WOT before I am just whooped. I have done some trail riding with it and it is fun, but it really works you out. I will tell you this; this bike can pull 4th gear wheelies all day long with no clutch work; just grab some throttle. | ||
| Jim_sb |
I don't care for the 2 strokes. The 4 strokes are clean and quiet, lots of grunt down low. In some ways they remind me of our Buells with very usable and tractable power. Of course nothing will climb the side of a mountain like a 500cc 2 stroke if you are man enough to tame the beast. The 2 stroke motorcycles are slowly disappearing. If you don't need street legal you can really look at all the big manufacturer's for trail bikes - Honda, Kawasaki, Yamaha, KTM, Suzuki, etc. They all make good bikes. I really look at things like maintenance intervals - how often do I have to adjust the valves? How much oil does the engine hold? How often do I have to change the oil? What kind of fuel does it require? My buddies need premium - my DRZ will run without pinging on just about anything. When we are in out of the way places often times 91 octane is not available... The new Husky's appear to be very maintenance friendly in stock form, although they do have some vibes. I have heard nothing but good things about the Hondas. I really like the KTM's but have decided they are simply too maintenance intensive for me. No bad choices out there, lots of good stuff. If you are not dirt experienced I recommend you buy a used bike on which to learn - because you WILL be dumping it a LOT - and as your abilities improve you will have a better idea of what precisely you want in a dirt bike. You also should consider longevity and durability. That is evidenced to some extent by the maintenance intervals. I expect my friends will be rebuilding the top ends on their KTM's and Husky's while my DRZ is still happily chugging along. So far it still goes everywhere their bikes go, which is saying a lot. I think an expert rider could appreciate the improvements that the KTM's, Hondas, etc. have vs. a street legal spec DRZ400S but I can't. Good luck, Jim in Santa Barbara | ||
| Etennuly |
I have a Honda XL250R. Fun, dependable, do it all capable, not too heavy, good gas mileage, street legal to get to the trails, cheap to own, will still run 85 mph with stock gears. | ||
| Dr_greg |
Regarding the 2-stroke/4-stroke thing... (entering IMHO soapbox mode) I have a 2000 KLX300R which I use for play-riding. I _used_ to ride a '92 KX250 along with my kids. That '92 was one GREAT bike for an old dude (I'll be 60 next year) like me. Shoulda kept it. Started first kick (even after dropping it...typical 2-stroke behavior), was light (220 lb), never fouled a plug, had a VERY MELLOW powerband (MXers didn't like the '92 cylinder). What a bike! Only cost me $1500 used. But, noooo, I thought I should get a "clean, trouble-free" 4-stroke. Hmmpph. While the KLX300 is good for the kind of riding I do, I honestly say that I enjoyed the 2-stroke more. Admittedly, E-start (which I don't have) has helped the hot-start issue somewhat. But...more $$$ and more complexity. After going the XR50, TTR-90 4-stroke route with my youngest son, I'm proud to say that he's now on a '98 Yamaha RT100, a 2-STROKE playbike!! Modern 2-strokes are great dirt bike engines. With the stock exhaust they are often quieter than many 4-strokes. Been to any MX races lately now that most racers ride 4-strokes? Bring earplugs! (leaving IMHO soapbox mode) One thing for sure...you WILL have fun! | ||
| Red_chili |
In all fairness, I used to own a KLX300R and regrettably sold it. The hot start issue was solved by me, with a pumper carb and manual compression release. I also had a tech rework the already decent suspension, which became superb. The KLX250 is close to the same bike, has the ebutton, and if you want a small dualsport it will do nicely. My KDX is extremely quiet, more so than my XR650R - and much, much easier to pick up! BUT... nothing holds a candle to the XR's monster torque, a fitting stablemate to the Uly. Just depends on what you want to do. For your uses and your desire for lightness (thumpers mentioned need not apply) I'd suggest a KTM 300EXC, at least ride one. (Message edited by Red_Chili on November 30, 2006) | ||
| Javadog |
Are you going to buy new or used? Are you an experienced dirt rider or just getting into it? I found a used 2003 Suzuki DRZ400S and have had a LOT of fun with it. Also, unlike the Uly, it has been around a while so there are millions of aftermarket parts. Go to thumpertalk.com and read some stuff, maybe even post your question. Great people there. | ||
| Bosh |
"I think that I want a very light bike" How about one of these babies. Weighs in at 140 lbs. I just strap it on back of my Uly and off I go!! Kinda pricy though.. $600.00   } (Message edited by bosh on December 01, 2006) | ||
| Jim_sb |
The button. Yeah, I had to have one. After 2 right knee surgeries? Yeah, the button was mandatory. If you don't need the magic button you can find something really small and light. My goals were simple - street legal, the button, quality suspension, easy to maintain, 87 octane and capable of freeway speeds if necessary. Plus clean and quiet. We're losing trails every day out West. The environmental zealots will not rest until we are all herded into areas that are ridiculously small in which to ride. We've got a huge forest just up the mountain from my home. Maybe a million acres. Within 70 miles of my house I can ride 3 trails which, if they were linked (they aren't) would cover a combined 25 miles. Basically we get nothing. And they take our OHV Green sticker registration money and use it to close trails. Thanks. It's a joke. President Clinton signed an executive order and we were outlawed. No due process. Nothing. Gates closed and locked. He just decided it was "wilderness". Never mind that there had been dirt roads out there forever. Forget the 2 stroke, get a clean 4 stroke. Anything we can do (within reason) to keep the environmental zealots calm would be helpful. Every time they see a 2 stroke smokin' they go nuts. Join CORVA. Join the Blue Ribbon Coalition. Fight for your right to ride before it's all gone. They're taking more land each day. Jim in Santa Barbara Life Member of CORVA - California Off Road Vehicle Association | ||
| Red_chili |
+1 on joining the orgs. Volunteer for trail maintenance too, and get to know your OHV rangers. 4x4 clubs are light years ahead of many motorcycle organizations in this arena, and BTW are willing to lend a helping hand. Quiet is important, but that will not placate the ultragreens who are committed idealists. Just the other normal forest users, which is not to be ignored. | ||
| Djkaplan |
"I ride a KDX220 which is great cheap fun, lightweight, and a very decent woods bike." Couldn't agree with this more. It handles well enough and has just the right amount of power to keep you out of trouble. My last dirtbike was a KDX200. I really miss the dirt. | ||
| Adrian_8 |
My KDX 200 was the best dirt bike I ever owned and I had a bunch of diff. kinds. Put the most smiles per miles on your face and you could run the heck out of it and it never wore out. Cheap to keep. | ||
| Jack82 |
Gotta throw in a vote for the Yam WR450.I love mine.Strong,bulletproof and easy to ride. If your after something a little softer the DRZ 400's are good solid allrounders... | ||
| Firemanjim |
KTM 300---cannot go wrong. 2 strokes in the dirt are just better,I have had both. All the late model 4 strokes that are real dirtbikes(sorry,but the DRZ and KLR are more playbikes)--CRF,WR, KX, KTM ECX 4 strokes,etc are very labor/maintenance intensive,heck some of em have 2-3 oil filters. Oil changes after each ride, top ends after so many hours. No thanks,too many parts--I can do a top end on a 2 stroke in camp,not that I have ever had a problem with my KTM.Heck my son's YZ 125 flat rips, light,agile,handles super, and we have it set-up for the tight stuff as we like to single track. | ||
| Jim_sb |
My DRZ is a playbike? Aren't they all?  It plays nicely on gnarly single track, sand, mountains, rocks, whoops. It's not a race bike though. Perhaps that's what you meant? Best, Jim in Santa Barbara | ||
| Firemanjim |
Yup, built for plonking along trails. The others I mentioned all have top line suspensions,brakes,etc. Sorry, Jim, but DRZ not built with same quality components. | ||
| Jmhinkle |
After riding and owning several different dirt bikes myself, and liking the DRZ a lot, I still vote 2 stroke for a true dirt bike. The only reason I would recommend a 4 stroke is if you need it to be street legal. I also think the longevity of a 2 stroke is higher. You can absolutely beat the snot out of a 2 stroke for years with minimal maintenance and they will run forever. The 4 stroke will not survive as long without a lot of maintenance over it's lifetime. My dad still owns a 1969 Yamaha 250 and 1971 Bridgestone 110 that have both been victim to my 2 brothers and me growing up. They have been run dry of 2 stroke lube and seized up, but with a piece of 2x4 the piston was carefully tapped back out and the walls weren't even scratched. They are still all original except the carb on the Bridgestone. They both only get started a few times in July and August and sit the rest of the year. They both still start within 3 kicks no matter how old the gas and oil is. If they don't they only need a new plug. I've seen 4 strokes a year old that don't run that good. Then if you actually want to rebuild it, the 2 stroke is unbelievably easier. Minimal tools and a 2 stroke is back up and running on the trail. If you seize a 4 stroke piston on the trail, the party is over. | ||
| Baydog |
44, As so many have pointed out, you really have to ask yourself what you will be riding, how often, and what your budget will allow. Then you need to ask yourself how performance oriented you are. Are you content to poke along at trials bike speeds in technical terrain, or do you have a bit more "need for speed"? Here's what happened to me and a friend. About 1 year ago after being away from dirt bikes for 20 years, my friend bought a new DRZ 400 and I bought an older KDX 250. It wasn't long before the considerable weight of the DRZ and the dated suspension of the older KDX were limiting factors for us. In the end, he spent a boatload of money trying to take weight off the DRZ, and it was still too heavy for his needs. The KDX was too old to justify upgrading the suspension. A year later we are both riding KTM EXC's. His a 450 and mine a 300. He prefers the low end grunt of a 4 stroke and "the button". I prefer the ease of maintenance, lower weight, lower cg, and the "hit" of a 2 stroke. I wouldn't consider either of these "beginner bikes". They are competition bikes that can be trail ridden. On the other hand my daughter, as a beginner rides a DRZ250 and it is a great trail bike. It is super tractable, has good suspension and brakes, and has "the button". It a lot of fun in the technical stuff but quickly runs out of steam on sand hills. While 2 strokes have their detractors, you needn't be afraid of them. They run much cleaner than the old ones and are pretty darn quiet if you stay with a good silencer. I think they require a bit more skill to ride well, but they will reward you with the most performance for the least weight. My advice is to be honest with yourself, try to ride as many bikes as you can prior to buying, and then buy a used bike to try the whole thing out. If you buy right and take care of it, you won't lose a lot of money at resale if you find you need a bit more (or less) performance. If you choose the 2 stroke route, a KDX 220 is a great choice, as is a 200-300 KTM EXC. For 4 strokes, you just have to figure out how much weight you can tolerate and if you need "the button". There are many good ones out there. The DRZ's and older XR's are pretty much regarded as bulletproof. CRF's, WRF's, and EXC's do require more maintenance, but will reward you with much higher levels of performance. In the end, you are the only one who can answer the question of what you will require and enjoy most. One other thing to consider... Often you will see a really good deal on a used MX'er. For trail riding at sane speeds it's best to steer clear of these. They generally lack flywheel, have very stiff suspension, limited fuel capacity and no lights. They also are tuned so that low end torque is lacking. You can spend a lot of money making an MX'er into a good trail bike. Whatever you buy, you WILL become a better road rider after spending time in the dirt. Guaranteed. Best of luck with your decision. | ||
| 44mag2 |
Is the DRZ400 street legal? I don't need it to be, I am just curious. I went looking at new dirt bikes today (with all the valuable advice from this forum in mind), and I was wondering about the benefit from water cooled. On the Hondas I was looking at, it sure seem that I would destroy the radiator the first time I layed the bike down. I assume that the air cooled DRZ250 is way too wimpy for a 210 pound guy. | ||
| 44mag2 |
Much thanks to all of your for your great advice! This is a great forum! | ||
| Jmhinkle |
DRZ400 is street legal, RM-Z450 is not. I think the DRZ200 is the air cooled bike you are talking of. The 250's are MX and designated RM. The DRZ200 is just plain pathetic in my opinion. Even if you find it suitable now, you'll want something with more oomph very soon. | ||
| Baydog |
44, Suzuki has a dizzying array of dirt/dual sport bikes. Putting aside all the variations of the DRZ400 family (some street legal and some not), there are the 200/250 bikes. There is the RMZ250 water cooled MX bike mentioned above. They also have the DR200 which is street legal, and the DRZ250 which is not. Both of these are air/oil cooled. Of the two, the DRZ is much better suited for off road use. I am 240 in my gear, and I still can have a lot of fun on the 250. It is a lot of fun in tight technical sections. As I said in my post above, it just depends on your intended use. The ability to street license "true" dirt bikes varies by state. Here in Washington state it is almost impossible to license a Japanese dirt bike. KTM and Gas Gas fall under the radar here as they are smaller mfgrs. and as such, different rules apply. It has to do with the original MSO that the bike is titled to. That is one of reasons KTM's are so popular here. My 300 EXC is licensed, although my only purpose for doing so is to ride forest service roads. | ||
| Red_chili |
RE: air cooled v. radiators, yes the radiators are a *bit* vulnerable but several companies make radiator guards that make that much less likely with very little added weight. True water cooled thumpers like my XR650R sometimes do not have a fan, and tend to boil in very slow, tight terrain until you add one. My XR is plated, and I intend to fully dualsport it. No I would *not* recommend it for a beginner. It sounds like you are really starting out dirt biking, and for that a smallish thumper *might* be the choice. Performance thumpers (see below*) do require as much or more mtce. than 2-strokes, but trailie thumpers definitely do not (except for valve adjustment, usually pretty easy) and will outlast 2-strokes. (* KTMs, CRF250/450s, YZF to some degree - because they are tweaked pretty hard to perform like they do. They are also not aimed at beginners.) The DRZ400 is a fine trailbike, but heavy (more than my 650, which is no lightweight!). It has a lot of fans nevertheless. If you are at lower altitudes, a 250 or so should do nicely. For instance, my 16 year old son rides an air-cooled Honda CRF230F, an evolved XR200 with e-button, which is a very fine beginner trailie (NOT an MX bike by any stretch - never mind the 'CRF' in front - but a competent tight woods bike for a light-ish rider). My 20 year old son rides an air-cooled Yamaha TTR250, which has better suspension, power, the ebutton, and is a very good trailbike you should look at, if a thumper is your pleasure. It's better than the XR250 was, and much better than the TTR225. " 'Tis a privilege to live in Colorado" the saying goes, and it is. All my dirtbikes are plated for the reasons Baydog gives, easy to do in CO. Taggability is more important than you may think as the USFS closes more connecting routes. Ride what makes you smile. You'll know. | ||
| Jim_sb |
FMJ, I agree that the KTM's have higher quality components. But the 4 stroke street legal KTM's cost $2k - $3k more but for that you get a more capable bike with higher quality components that weighs 40 pounds less than a DRZ. And I don't ride any faster on one of those than I do on my bike. Yes, "plonking" down trails is what I do. Or at least it sounds like it. I'm no racer. I average between 15 and 20mph depending on difficulty of the trail, single or two track, whoops, etc. I find the DRZ suspension (which on my bike is fully tunable front and rear) to be very plush and the bike is very composed for the riding I do. I average between 100 and 150 miles for a day of riding in the desert. Cost and maintenance (both effort involved and cost) are important to me. My KTM riding buddies have to do an oil change after every weekend of riding in the desert. I don't. My DRZ has between 5k and 6k miles on it, vast majority of those in the dirt, all I do are periodic oil changes and air filter service and new tires. Others have posted 4 stroke tales of woe but mine has been 100% reliable so far. In fact, we've spent more time on the side of the trail working on the KTM 525 than we have on my DRZ. Don't get me wrong, a street legal KTM 450 EXC would be an awesome next bike for me if I ever get good enough to outgrow the capabilities of the DRZ. So far the DRZ can easily do anything I can do and more including steep sand hills, rocks, whoops, sand washes, etc. Basically anything I've been able to find from Pozo/Black Mountain (tough hill climbs) to Kernville (awesome single track), Gorman, Ridgecrest to Anza Borrego. Best, Jim in Santa Barbara | ||
| Jjg0324 |
I just purchased a 2007 Kawasaki KLX250S. I am impressed with it so far. Its perfect for heading down those small trails where you wouldn't want to take the Uly. It feels extremely light and agile, and has lots of suspension, 11 inches at both ends. Its no power house engine wise, but its very confidence inspiring off road. Its street legal, but its still only a 250, best for rural roads etc. At $4799 I think its a good buy. http://www.kawasaki.com/Products/Detail.aspx?id=20 6 | ||
| Red_chili |
And, you can make it a 300, with not a terrific amount of effort. A pumper carb on my old 300R made the thing REALLY wake up. It went from leisurely to snappy and the front end felt like it shed about 15 lbs.  | ||
| Ejc |
If your torn between bikes, I'd go with the one that has the best shop behind it,(i.e. location, service, and gear to support your habit). |
