| Author | Message | ||
     Electraglider_1997 |
How many of you would like to see this? I for sure would. Seeing how Buell likes to place fans behind the rear cylinder I think that they should consider placing the radiator there. Redo the XB frame for tighter (normal) turning radius. 5.5 to 6 gallon fuel requirement. Instruments includes GPS and VDSTS. This bike would be a sport touring rig. Lighten the engine/transmission to keep bike around 400 lbs. Adjustable seat height of 28 to 30" so that they can sell to anyone. Air-cooled is OK but water-cooled lends itself to tighter tolerances and that means more power. | ||
| Ray_r |
Ah...to dream...the impossible dream.... Can't do it. No way to hit 400lbs with the current VROD engine. Look what Ducati and Aprilia have to do with their bikes, frames, twin engines, etc., to hit that weight bracket. And if Buell did it? We'd be talking the same $20-30k price range due to the cost of materials to get it there. I like the concept. Just can't see how the physics could work out. | ||
| Daves |
No thanks | ||
| Chrisb |
I've seen you post "vrod motor" in 2 or 3 threads this week. I have to ask what about the v-rod powerplant appeals to you so much? Is it the water cooling? OR Is it the 60° v-twin? | ||
| Johnnylunchbox |
I've brought up the idea of a Revo powered sport-tourer before. Make it fully faired, with hard bags, and if you keep the weight around 500 lbs you will still be in line with the current crop of ST's. The Buell purists hate it because it is not minimalist, and HD probably doesn't want anything that will compete with their luxo-tour-barges. I personally would think it phenomenal. | ||
| Retired_cop |
There was a V-ROD to Road Glide conversion done at Gettysburg HD/Buell at least 2 years ago. My understanding is that it was a kit that is still available. If that is what you are really looking for, it has been done at least once. I saw the bike but did not get a chance to sit on or ride it. Just my 2 cents worth.....ohh, it was priced around $30,000. | ||
| Reepicheep |
If I wanted that kind of bike, why on earth would I buy that one over an FJR? Or the new Kawi sport tourer coming out next year? | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Some of you guys are such naysayers and that is why we end up with the XBTTREHASH. FJR isn't a Buell. Roadglide V-Rod is a parts bin special and heavier or just as heavy as my Electraglide. Why the V-Rod powerplant appeals to me is that it is a beautiful engine stuck in an ugly bike. Willy G's wet dream gone dry. I'll bet the Engineers at Buell could mate the top end of that engine to the lower transmission end of the Sportster mill and then you'd have a lighter powerplant. The XB series is good but like anything else it is getting dated. Innovate or perish. Why do all Buells have to look essentially the same?? Forget the Buell blast. If it wasn't for the Rider's Edge program that bike would be history. For Buell to keep on offering the same engine in every model year after year is not what a cutting edge company does and you guys know it. Show us something new and exciting. The last thing was the ULY and nothing since. The RR doesn't count either since it is for the track only and 30g's. Oh yeah and as for competing with Harleys, that's just nonsense. Don't tell me you've forgotten what breathed-on motor is in the Buell and it doesn't make a hail-dent in Sportster sales. | ||
| Naustin |
THe Uly was nothing be a re-hash itself. Its an XB12 with long suspension and a different tail. Buell hasn't come out with a new model since the first xb9, IMO. Just different options packages. A Revo powered buell? Yeah, I'd like to see it. Just for the sake of seeing them do something, ANYTHING new. What other step can buell take? They either go to REVO, or consign themselves to using the same motor for the next 10 years. I heard next year, there's going to be a new model out. Its an xb, except it has a different tailsection and headlight... Seriously... | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
If you look at the XB line from a realistic lineup standpoint, you have the 03 year with half a line up (9 only). 2004 was the first XB12 anything. That said you are looking at the 2004, 2005, 2006, and now the 2007 model years. During that time, there was the SS, the Scg, the SX, the X and now the STT. Yes they are variants, but in an overall development timeline, we aren't that long in the tooth. I would say that something different will be coming out for the 2008 model year. It's an anniversary year, and we are in the fifth year since the first XB and four years into the current full line up. From an engine standpoint, there was a change from the X-1s, S3Ts, etc. to the XB platform. I could see a transformation to another platform beginning 2008-2009. My question is, do we really want the Revo engine? How long has it been out? Is it the best that we can do? I have a hunch that the Buell engineers are designing something different. Water cooled probably, but definitely different. I think everyone is playing in the sandbox with the toys available instead of realizing that the sandbox is sitting smack dab in the middle of Toys R Us. They have a blank canvas. They can design anything they want. Why limit them to the HD engine? Let's look hypothetically at Buell from the outside. We got a parts bin special that is not very different from what is available. Why is that? Is it because Buell has lost it's edge or recently been hit in the head with a hammer? Could it be that the vast majority of the engineering time is being spent on something else. How long would it take an engineer to come up with the STT? Like 15 minutes. Maybe that was all one engineer could spare from his other duties creating something that will smack us in the mouth for 2008. If not, we'll simply think of Buell as the new Saturn. (Message edited by ft_bstrd on November 15, 2006) | ||
| Stevem123 |
Dang you guys are reaaly sad. The XB 1203 engine is essentually a NEW engine. NOT a Sportster engine at all. The tube frame Buells had a hopped-up Sportster engine and those ran good. The newer XB engines are a major re-design to that engine and do run better by my seat-of-the-pants feeling. It's not going to be a Hyabusa by any stretch of the imagination but I'm satisfied that I can put thousands of miles on my Buell and love every mile. The Ulysses is my second Buell and I like them both a lot. My first was the S3T and 50K+ miles later it still puts a big grin on my face when I blow past the rice eaters in the twisties! Buell put 6 years (I think that's what Eric said) into R&D for the XB and Ulysses models. I think they still have a couple years before that R&D is paid for before they can go the next step. Just hang in there and enjoy what you have now or build it yourself. Some people are never happy......... BC Steve | ||
| Windrider |
As far as the VRod mill in the Buell frame goes, the subject was broached during the intro online chat with Erik and the Ulysses design team. I thought it was perfect. Here is a quote: """jazzman: Dan, so you are the rocket scientist on the team... Can you figure out how to get a vrsc engine on a Buell? Dan: That's easy. You drain the water out of it, take it apart, and it should fit neatly into the saddle bags and top box of a Ulysses. Careful - that will exceed the weight rating of the box and bags though..... """ The VRod engine is huge... and fat. It is out of character with the bikes that Buell builds. If you want a VRod go get one, they build the whole bike to match to the mill and they are great bikes, just not in the same vein as the Buells. Yeah, the engine in the Buell is less than the latest thing but it's powerband is great, it is fun every time you light it up, it is easy and inexpensive to maintain, and it gets great fuel economy to boot. I think it is hard to beat in in it's current form in a lot of ways. As far as the whole bike goes it is also hard to say that the other brands are ahead in the terms of real innovation that makes a bike really better. They change stuff every year but that doesn't make them a better bike. I guess I have been drinking the Buell-aid but it all looks good to me just like it is today and I am sure that the crew is working on some real innovations that we will see in years to come. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Good comparison Fat. While Saturn was making Saturns (I bought two new), Saturn was making *great* cars. When they started trying to make Nissan Altima and a Honda Accord, they crashed and burned. You know, kind of like Buell trying to build a Yamaha or a Honda. And another funny thing, I bought and owned a 2000 M2. Then I bought and own an 2005 XB9SX. The engines share a common footprint, but there are very few parts I could move from one to the other. And in the timeframe where I have not even had yet to replace the spark plugs in my XB, on the "other engine" I had pulled both rockerboxes down to the heads, replaced a cam, replaced an oil pump drive gear, replaced a primary tensioner, and rebuilt a transmission. And replaced the front exhaust mount, and a 5th gear drive assembly, and two speedo sensors. And 3 primary gaskets. And a shifter pawl. And an exhaust header stud. And the derby cover bolts. Funny, all that stuff on my "same engine" on my 05 9sx are different, and they didn't break. Were I buying again today (I am not, I love my 9sx), I would be torn between the 9sx, this new STT, and the Uly. I honestly don't know which I would pick, all three strongly appeal to me for different reasons. I'm not saying everyone has to like all the bikes in the line, but to say they are stupid or ill concieved is just plain stupid  I'd love to have that suspension and that beak on my 05 9sx, but don't want the 12 motor and extra cost. The Uly would be a great "anywhere anytime" bike, but looses some of the edginess and focus of my 9sx. I'd rather next years Buells loose 50 pounds rather then gain 15 horsepower. But that's just me. And if I wanted to drop 50 pounds from my current ride, I could do that without touching the bike  . Well, 40 pounds anyway... | ||
| Daves |
Never said I didn't want a new engine, just not the V Rod engine. I think Buell could do much better. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Saturn got lazy and failed to continue to innovate. I seriously doubt Buell is in the same mindset. I think we have the patience of my three year old here. | ||
| Naustin |
Do we really see buell coming out with its own, completely unique powerplant? We can't get the dealerships to service our bikes now, imagine if the motor wasn't at least Mostly the same as a current model HD! And correct me if I'm wrong, and I may well be! - But the new engine in 2003 wasn't a uniquely buell project. Those improvements went into the sportsters too, and considering the sales volumes, I'd say the sportster and HD drove the engine redesign more than buell did. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
With each iteration and increase in sales comes the possibility of independent development and DISTRIBUTION. At some point in time the relationship between Buell and HD will have to change. Do you really think that the average HD rider would approve of scores of "squids" hanging out at the HD dealership? | ||
| José_quiñones |
This topic comes up like clockwork every few weeks or so, ever since the VROD and Firebolt were introduced. Here's all you need to know: HD/Buell of Bonn Germany already built one (with help from the mothership) and raced it successfully at the Oschersleben 24 World Endurance Race  http://k-wallbaum.homepage.t-online.de/my/suzi/pic tures/pic.htm http://www.racecorporation.co.uk/Oschersleben_2006.htm http://www.netmagazine.de/sport/sport2006/speedweek2006/speedweek2006.html Roeher Motorcycle Company "intends" to build such a creation here in the US http://www.roehrmotorcycles.com/default.php http://www.sporttwin.com/News/print/sid=117.html Carry on.... (Message edited by josé_quiñones on November 16, 2006) | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
How did they do in the Oschersleben 24 World Endurance Race? How would they do in a non-endurance race? | ||
| Red_chili |
Man, that wheelbase looks to be a FOOT longer than what we have become accustomed to... | ||
| Lowflyer |
I wouldn't want a V-rod engine in a Buell either. It's too damn big and heavy. Then again, I am a practical kind of guy. I would rather see boxer reliability than V-rod performance. I want a bike that I can ride forever with no engine problems and great fuel economy. I don't give a shit about the additional Hp unless I can get it reliably, efficiently, and above all, cheaply. | ||
| Thunderbox |
Just for arguments sake does anyone really know how much a V-Rod engine and trany weighs and how much does the current XB12 engine and trany weigh? I bet they are not that much different and the Roehr weighs in at a svelt 435 thats only 10 lbs more than the current Uly and it has a huge and heavey exhaust sytem. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
I wonder if it is possible to increase the oil volume to the cylinders so that tolerances could be tightened closer to a water-cooled equivalent engine. And then just add a larger oil cooler that would use a thermostatically controlled fan. The roehmotorcycle is not at all what I have in mind. I don't care for crotch rocket styled bikes in the least. I love the ULY style. | ||
| Daves |
Naustin wrote -------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Do we really see buell coming out with its own, completely unique powerplant? I don't know, but that would be great! We can't get the dealerships to service our bikes now, imagine if the motor wasn't at least Mostly the same as a current model HD! Good Buell dealers would work on them. And correct me if I'm wrong, and I may well be! - But the new engine in 2003 wasn't a uniquely buell project. Those improvements went into the sportsters too, and considering the sales volumes, I'd say the sportster and HD drove the engine redesign more than buell did. The "New Buell" engine came out in April 02 as a 03 model. Sportsters didn't get ANY of the good stuff til the 2004 model year, in July of 2003. That was over a year after Buell came out with the all new 2003 XB. Not saying they didn't intend on sharing stuff from the start but Buell did get it first. | ||
| Lowflyer |
A full-up race bike that is 10 pounds heavier than a larger production bike speaks volumes to me about the weight of that engine. I don't know what either motor weighs, but I have already made up my mind that the V-rod motor is too heavy so there's no turning back for me. Maybe somebody else can look at the actual numbers and agree that it isn't much different, but I am too damn stubborn for that.  | ||
| Thunderbox |
I don't think the Roehr is a full up race bike as it is being sold as a you buy it as a road bike. I would just like to know where the knowledge comes from that the V-Rod engine is so heavy. I have never seen any specs to back that up. I see a lot of talk about it but does anyone really know or are they just assuming it is much heavier. | ||
| Lowflyer |
I'm definitely just assuming. It looks fatter and it's full of water. | ||
| Thunderbox |
That's what I thought. An R1 looks much heavier than the Uly but it's actually lighter. Go Figure. | ||
| Soloyosh |
I would just like to know where the knowledge comes from that the V-Rod engine is so heavy. I have never seen any specs to back that up. I see a lot of talk about it but does anyone really know or are they just assuming it is much heavier. Some of the extra weight certainly comes from the cooling system. The Revo motor won't run too long without a radiator. And the XB engine architecture actually started with the Blast. That was back in the 2000 model year. | ||
| Ray_r |
I'd like to see a model with Ohlins suspension, and a larger/better oil cooling system to eliminate the need for the fan. 100hp in any bike is good enough for me. Sure, I've had bikes with a bunch more. But for me it was only usable at ridiculously high speeds. And I want Buell to keep the low/easy maintenance they're becoming known for. | ||
| Paochow |
+1 And I want Buell to keep the low/easy maintenance they're becoming known for. I want a bike I can work on and one that I don't have to very much. Same reason I have a DRZ over much racier dirt machines, sure there are faster alternatives, but I'm satisfied with a 10 hp loss for increased reliablity and simplicity. | ||
| Lowflyer |
"I'd like to see a model with Ohlins suspension, and a larger/better oil cooling system to eliminate the need for the fan. 100hp in any bike is good enough for me. Sure, I've had bikes with a bunch more. But for me it was only usable at ridiculously high speeds. And I want Buell to keep the low/easy maintenance they're becoming known for." +1 on the Ohlins and the easy maintenance. I don't know if a larger oil cooler would eliminate the need for a fan. I think I read somewhere that the current oil cooler is the most efficient size for the amount of cooling that oil can provide in this configuration. I took that to mean that a bigger oil cooler will make the oil only a little cooler and that cooler oil won't make much difference to the temperature of the top ends. I agree that eliminating the fan would be a plus, but I think they would have to go with a significantly different frame/engine configuration or go to water cooling (which would then eliminate me as a potential customer - I dig air-cooled motors). (Message edited by lowflyer on November 17, 2006) | ||
| Ray_r |
That's why I meant larger and/or better. I'm no engineer, so I can't say what it would take to keep the engine cool while eliminating the fan. Water doesn't work for me either. But that's my only gripe. I get toasted on those warm summer days. Although Odie's heat shield/blanket seems to have taken care of that problem now too. The suspension upgrade would certainly be a "nice to have". I guess I could just do it on my own. But I'd love to see it on a stocker. Perhaps a new Buell model! The XB12SsSS! The lightning long with sport suspension!  | ||
| Diablobrian |
You mean the SS Essess? of course...where have I heard that before?  The Charlie Sheen movie "Hot Shots" Reminds me of the marketing decision to call the original lower lightning the XB12S-low it didn't take long for the witty individuals that dubbed the blast the "be-last" to call the lightning low the xb12 SLOW. However the current trend of adding more and more "R"s to your street bike to denote how fast it is ie..cbR-1000-RR sound very much like bad pirate dialog to me. C. B. ARGH it's me 1000 Argh Argh!  Now try not to grin when you picture the guy with the new Honda superbike talking about it dressed up like an extra from Pirates of the Carribean.  | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
The V-Rod puts out 120 hp @ 7000 rpm The XB12 puts out 103 hp @ 6800 rpm The V-Rod has 80 ftlbs of torque @ 7000 rpm The XB12 has 84 fglbs of torque @ 6000 rpm V-Rod = 675 lbs @ $16,000 and gets 47 mpg XB12 = 400 lbs @ $10,000 and gets 65 mpg All that being said, I think something other than the Revo motor is in order. I like having 2 Buells for the price of one Harley... | ||
| Tel |
I've got a V-Rod motor Harley (Street Rod). I wanted the Uly for its engine, frame and clever engineering. Take the engine out of the equation and I'm not sure I would remain interested. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Was the VR1000 a successful racing engine? | ||
| Johnnylunchbox |
I agree with the folks who say the v-rod motor would not be ideal for a sport bike, but it would be ideal for a sport tourer. Tube frame, full fairing, big bags. I know Mr. Buell said that sport bikes don't sell. How would he explain the phenomenal success of the FJR, Honda ST's, and the new Kawi Concours14 (one of the most talked about bikes in a long time). A v-rod powered Buell ST would take a big chunk out of the market. Heck I'd settle for an EVO powered ST. | ||
| Phatkidwit1eye |
I would love to see something similar to the v-rod motor, just not that actual motor. Maybe something producing TLR/RC51 power. I know the answer around here in the past has been "If you want that type of power buy that bike". I know many are drawn to the raw air cooled v-twin, but I don't feel that motor is where Buell's future is. I will always contend that the day Buell puts a modern motor into their bikes, they will sell a lot of bikes. I think people, especially younger people like myself, want to own a powerful American made sport bike. I think Buell can move from a niche bike and into the main stream. I've always looked at Buell like a small indie band. They start small and build a small but loyal following. The second the big single hits and they get mainstream, some of those fans get upset at their success. I, for one, want to see Buell become one of the premiere motorcycles in the world. I would love to see large groups of Buell riders instead of the large groups of UJM riders. I want to see a Buell every time I'm out riding. I want the Buell name to be as common place as Suzhondyamasaki bikes. And I think a new motor would help turn Buell in that direction. |
