| Author | Message | ||
     12x_infatuation |
E-glider, in australia, BP's top fuel is called 'ultimate' & is probably 5 cents a litre dearer than premium unleaded. Less than a dollar extra each time i fill up. I live about half way between sydney & brisbane & we usually have some of the highest bowser prices in the country. I think my last fill up was over a $1.40 a litre (AU). The fun/grin factor would be still there at $2 a litre! | ||
| 12x_infatuation |
Am i causing any detrimental side effects running 98 octane? I think i read somewhere to run the highest available. | ||
| Sanchez |
That's not too bad. It works out to about $3.94/gallon in US dollars. We saw prices that high last year after hurricane Katrina. Gas is back down to about $2.25/gallon now for 93 octane (which is the highest we can get at a regular gas station). That's about $0.80/liter in AU dollars. | ||
| Xbimmer |
91 octane highest we can get around SoCA unless you can find the 100. The 100 is $5.99/gal but the Uly runs SWEET with a frame full of it! Ran through a tank last Saturday, not ONE friggin ping and even though the local weather has cooled I don't believe it much different from when I bought the bike in May. The bike rattled back then even as I pulled away from the dealer brand spanking new. I made my concerns known to them immediately, I was told that Buells need to run at higher rpm. That "higher rpm" was higher than the limit during my break-in, which I did by the book, by the way... 1k service a few days later and I asked them to check the timing, it was pronounced "ok". Check it they did, I think NOT. In July after putting over 3k on my bike in this condition I couldn't take it anymore and on my trip to ID I asked Grand Teton HD to take a look at it for me. They scooted me right in and found the timing 5 deg too advanced! Set to spec the bike rattled CONSIDERABLY less until I got back down to lower altitudes, still pinged (pings) but much less than before their work. As of this post I am still waiting for my dealer to compensate me for the $85 I paid Gran Teton HD to set my engine to spec. I have discovered that the '07 airbox top I installed last Sat may have improved the condition, MAY have. After I used up the 100 octane and refilled with 91 Sunday I expected the ping to return, but it has not. Yes it is cooler these last couple days but I've been running the piss out of this bike this week and although my fan has been reawakened (RSS-dormant) I can't make this bike ping. Even with ultra-lugged WOT. Mpg has not changed, so there goes my theory of richer mix I guess. This bike has become some sort of a puzzle... | ||
| Snowscum |
My puzzle turned out to be a intake leak. But we will see if it gets rid of the ping. Did they check for that? Do you kinda lose power when it gets hot? | ||
| Xbimmer |
Snowscum, the power loss I get is a result of my having to wick it waay down with throttle when engine or air temp are hot, accel on hills or passing induce a rattle that I don't intend to subject my engine to. So far as my dealer checking for an intake leak either at the 1k or 5k (when I bitched about it again) if they didn't even check the timing at the 1k... ? | ||
| Snowscum |
Id check it yourself. Just drop the cover on the right side and get some starter spray,shoot some by the intake as it enters the head while its running. When I said dropping power, does it feel like its weaker(power) when it gets hot? BTW its my front cylinder thats leaking. So when it did ping it did so before the fan would come on. | ||
| Xbimmer |
Points to ponder, Snowscum. Thanks!  | ||
| Davo |
A front cylinder intake leak will cause even more pinging than a rear leak because the O2 sensor is unaware of the lean condition so there is no adjustment made by the ECM. If you drop power you are too lean, hot and/or early. If there is any pinging at all make sure you follow up with a call the Buell Customer Service. Make sure they put the bike on the digital technician so that Buell has some data! | ||
| Snowscum |
Ok here it goes....... I got the bike back after they fixed the intake leak. It seems more responsive when it gets hot but I still got it to PING on the way home. It seems to lost a little power as well but still runs better hot than it did before. Its pretty cool here and I was suprised that it did ping. So I guess its back to square one. =( | ||
| Red_chili |
The Davo timing fix? Too bad the dealer doesn't seem to want to fix the bike... I think I'd tell 'em  | ||
| Snowscum |
Oh they know. They just want to rape my wallet. I refuse. Ill sell the bike before I give them another dime really. | ||
| Red_chili |
If you sell the bike, they win (inasmuch as they made you do something you didn't want to do). It's not the bike's fault. If you fix it yourself, you win- on many levels. | ||
| Snowscum |
I thought for sure that intake leak fix would take care of the ping. It slowed it down but when I drove it home from the dealer it pinged. I have yet to get it to ping since then but its been pretty cool out. So I'm sure if I let it go till next summer when it gets hot again it will do it. It did seem to lose a little on low end power wise and it has a more trouble starting in the morning. So the intake leak fix wasnt all it could be. Its still a blast to ride though. | ||
| Snowscum |
Still like someone else to ride it hot and tell me what that clatter is. It started a while back and only hear it when it gets hot. Lifter noise? Piston slap? Only hear it when Im not acc or decel. Right in the middle maintaining speed. | ||
| Red_chili |
Mine has developed a bit of a clatter too. It's a tight (by air-cooled stds), air-cooled motor. It's gonna make noise, and clearances are going to bed in. My first take is, no worries. As far as the pinging and hard starting- did they reset your AFV and TPS by any chance? The AFV's gotta be off. You can do the 20-min (or 5-min. if Davo is correct, and I think I have every reason to believe he is) steady-speed ride thing, see if it makes a diff. I still think your timing is advanced. Call me old school, but fiddling with timing was basic back in the day. Not a scary thing to do. (Message edited by red_chili on October 16, 2006) | ||
| Snowscum |
The problem with fiddling with your timing is when you go drilling out rivets and they see that you messed with anything it gives them an excuse to not warranty work. Im trying to do things by the book so I dont have to pay for this stuff myself. It still might be running a bit lean. | ||
| Davo |
When it comes to your engine, let them know you have been in there and make them feel like they are trespassing! Davo  | ||
| Snowscum |
Hahaha nice one Davo! Red Im sure they reset everything. I would hope they did everything by the book. I asked for the only tech I trust there. Im not sure I told you guys about when I did take it in for the race kit install(at 300miles). The tech (a woman that doesnt work there anymore) didnt reset the tps(idle was 2.5k and out of control and used the wrong fasteners in the chin fairing. She was let go there after. Ever since that incident I havent had much faith. | ||
| Red_chili |
Snow, if they are like that, you are SOL on warranty anyway due to the race kit. RMHD told me that technically I would also be SOL on warranty with any mods...but that reason prevails... in other words, they (Buell) do not look for any and all excuses to bail on warranty work. They just have to be very careful - and like I say, reason prevails. So does attitude. The best option would be, no assumptions on their setting things up correctly. You are correct to lose faith - but that is the dealer, not Buell. Have a reputable dealer CHECK the timing, SHOW you the numbers, MAKE the corrections. If it pings, and if the A/F ratio is within spec, and if the fuel is good, and the spark plugs are as specc'ed, and no vacuum leaks exist... Well, let me put it this way: YOU tell ME what it could be other than timing. That very reasonable line worked nicely with Toyota when I had an early headgasket failure in '93, just out of warranty. New motor. No user cause could be found to explain it. Couple years later there was a major HG recall. Reason prevails, when assertiveness is coupled with courtesy. If you are dealing with folks of character, such as has been my experience with Buell so far... (Message edited by red_chili on October 17, 2006) | ||
| Court |
>>>gives them an excuse to not warranty work. That's an inaccurate statement. It may give them a REASON, but I'd doubt the "excuse". Heck, tell them the last dealer pulled the rivets? | ||
| Snowscum |
Thanks for the info guys. Well I asked the salesman if the race kit harms my ability to get warranty work done and he said no problem. It seems they always ask me if there is a race kit on it when it comes down to this pinging thing. Then try to get me to spend the $450 to have it tuned. The race kit on the demo is what sold me on the bike in the first place. So I guess I assumed that having it on there was ok. Maybe not. I would think that the race ecm has a leaner mix and maybe that is what is causing the pinging? But I guess when it becomes a problem next spring I will take more of an action towards finding out the cause. Meanwhile it runs ok when its cool out. Hi Court! My bike has only seen this dealer so far so Im not sure they wouldn't buy into telling them that. They seem pretty paranoid anyways. I feel like Im intruding when I ask anything of these guys. Its funny how this intake leak was a non issue but my belt problem seems like they dont want to talk about it. Just seems weird. | ||
| Davo |
Snowscum, The timing on the race ECM introduces even more spark advance than the stock ECM. The significant differences are at or above 3K. The most radical changes take place at 4500 RPM. As for the lean condition, the race ECM should be richer than stock and not leaner to accommodate the free flowing intake and exhaust. Since there is more air available to the engine the ECM needs to add more fuel. It is my opinion that some of these bikes must have an increased compression ratio due to some inconsistency in the top end. In order to run pump fuel there is only one external fix, timing. I am aware of your pursuit with the dealer so I can't stress enough that you contact Buell Customer Service so they can rule out all of the possible causes and then pull the top end and fix it right! I am very close to pulling mine down and making some book on the issue in which case I will make that information public for the benefit of Buell owners like yourself. (Message edited by davo on October 17, 2006) | ||
| Snowscum |
So is this why they can get rid of the ping with tuning the ecm? I was going to handle one problem at a time with HD/Buell. Dont want to get greedy. Id rather have the belt problem resolved before the pinging. I worry about that belt breaking while riding. Not sure what its going to feel like when it happens. Rather not have to worry but I guess my cards have been delt. | ||
| Scooter808484 |
Fortunately, my Uly has not exhibited this problem yet. Couple of pings when lugging it in hot weather, just like my modifued Twin Cam, but I figured that was to be expected on a 10:1 air cooled moter. I do know what I think I would do if I did have the problem. I'd get hold of the Direct Link and modify the timing map in the offending area. Seems like changing the static timing will affect you across the rpm range costing you power, maybe running hotter. Could also try adding a little gas in the offending region. This, of course has serious warranty implications, and is a little bit costly, but at that point you are completely free from relying on the dealer for your maintenance issues, and you can make modifications and get a custom map or do one yourself. I've not done it on a Buell, but have gone through several iterations on my HD Delphi system. If you are interested in engines and tuning and you like to tinker, it's really pretty easy. | ||
| Court |
>>>>It is my opinion that some of these bikes must have an increased compression ratio due to some inconsistency in the top end. That's a very interesting theory. It would interest me to see the compression ratios of about 100 of those motors compared. I am not familiar with the current state of things but HD used to really struggle with consistency in the Sportster engines as manifest in a wide range of power output and various shape and tapers of cylinders. The old method of dealing with it was to buy 883 cylinders and do what HD couldn't. I suspect newer manufacturing techniques have obviated those concerns and greatly tightened the tolerances. | ||
| Jlnance |
I was reading some posts on advrider last night. Some people were having problems with their BMWs pinging due to carbon buildup in the cylinders. Has anyone ruled this out for the Ulys that ping? | ||
| Snowscum |
Scooter:Wouldn't doing this procedure on a dyno be a benefit? How easy is it to put in a wrong value and burn it up? I have a friend at work that tuned his harley in this fashion without a dyno. He said its the way togo. Jinance: Mine started about the 1000 mile mark. Would that be enough time to have carbon buildup? | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
To those that either have put on an 07' airbox cover or added holes to their 06' and have noticed their plugs running richer and say they won't get the 07' reflash: carbon buildup might be a problem. I got the 07 reflash because of a fouled rear plug shortly after adding holes to my airbox cover. Front plug was pretty rich looking also. Carbon buildup can't be good for the oil either. I'd rather be burning towards lean and get the better gas mileage that comes with it. | ||
| Scooter808484 |
Snowscum, Doing it on a dyno is THEway to do it, especially with someone that knows what they are doing. That used to be a problem, but there are more and more of them around now. As far as burning it up, I'm sure its possible, maybe even easy, but using a little relative care, taking time to learn a little about engine tuning theory, and taking small steps and it's really not too bad. The thing with FI on a motorcyle is that to start messing with the fuel you really need a wideband O2 meter mounted in the exhaust header. There's another $400 or so. Taking a little timing out in a specific rpm range should be no big deal. The thing I liked about the single use Direct link that American Sportbike is selling, is that for $348 you can monkey around with the timing, you can reset your own TPS, and you can download a custom map for one of the common hop ups when they get them done. Just to get the key to load the map is $249. All that said, I didn't buy it, I just got the VDSTS, figuring if I hop it up, I'll just put a Drummer and Race ECM and that'll be it. The Road King is my science project, this bike is for riding. |
