| Author | Message | ||
     Pso |
Folks: I desperatly need yor collective wisdome and help. I took my bike in for its 1,000 mi. service on the 16th. I had the side stand recall done at the same time. I got the bike back and noticed that it had a sort of hesitation starting around 3,000 rpm. It felt similar to when you are running out of gas. This condition was noticable all the way up the rev band but it was most noticable at around 50MPH and 3000 rpm. Until this service the bike had run great no hesitation and once it got to about 2500 rpm it started to smooth out very nicely. Just to make sure it was not the gas I finished of the tank and put in new gas from a different station. I mentioned this problem to the service rep. who stated he took it out for a test drive after the servicing on the 16th, and it ran very well, after I asked him if he held the bike at a constant 3,000 rpm on his test ride and also how many XB12X he had driven, I was able to get them to take it back in yesterday. I did need to talk to the owner after the service fellow said that I could bring it and that he would get it back to me in two to three weeks. (fellow needs some training in customer relations). The tech reset the TPS but the problem is still there, however it does not feel as pronounced but it is still present. I talked with the tech that worked on the bike and he said that he had not noticed it when he test rode the bike before and after servicing it. I asked how many Ulysess' they had sold and serviced. He said he thought that mine was only the second sold and that it was the first in for service. Last night I tested the exhaust valve actuator mechanism to make sure the pulley on the air box was working. (My thinking was that when they took the muffler off they perhaps did something to the exhuast valve.) I followed the procedure in the shop manual when adjusting the cable. Hold the throttle full open and turn on the ignition and I watched to see if the cam on the air box would pull up on the cable.The pulley worked as described in the manual and it did not look like the mechanism was binding. After I did that I also gently pulled on the cable to see if there was resistance, and there did seem to be a level of pull back. I am not sure how best to see if the cable is actually attached to the valve on the muffler. In the mannual the drawing looks like the mechanism is on top of the muffler, but the drawing was not specific enough for me to know if I would be able to see it. The drawing also does not show how the cable is connected. Is there something else I should be or could be investigating to get to the bottom of the problem? Could there be a problem as a result of the tech taking off the tensioner and getting all the slack in the belt to get to the muffler clamps? I think that the dealership is exclusively Harley oriented and has no interest nor knowledge in Buell problems. The dealer and tech were very polite but also patronizing that there is no problem that they could feel so I am stuck seeking info from you folks. Any and all suggestions or recomendations are gratefully accepted. As a final note the reason for the desperation is that over the next two months I will be taking 2 one week motorcycle trips, and my annual 10-14 day trip with two riding friends, and the bike is sure a miserable ride right now and I will not be able to take it on those long excursions. I have been riding bikes since '59 and found the Ulysess to be the best so far until this problem. This ride has turned into the most unpleasnt ride I have had since before my '81, 550 Kawasaki. Thank You Paul | ||
| Whodom |
Paul, Since the problem only appeared after they serviced the bike, odds are pretty dang good that they hosed it up. Either their tech set the TPS improperly or the servo valve isn't working correctly. It doesn't seem like it should be that hard for them to diagnose. Hopefully someone near you can recommend a more Buell-friendly dealer to take care of your bike. Good luck. (Message edited by whodom on August 24, 2006) | ||
| Pso |
Whodom- thanks you can rest assurd that this would have been my first action when the service fellow said leave the bike for three weeks. However HarleyDavidson, of Seaford Deleware and Ocean City Maryland is basically the only game in town. I was reluctant to purchase from them for that reason. They are about an hour ride away. I am starting to wish I had not purchased this bike , not because of the bike but because of the lack of dealer support in my area. I guess I should have gone with another BMW, (I also have a f650GS which is much smoother and also more powerful right now than the Uly)the dealer is 2 hours away but they do the job right and do not bugger your bike, but I at the time liked the Uly better than anything BMW or Suzuki had to offer, that I test drove. I will be going back to the dealer if I cannot correct the problem myself and look into the lemon laws in Delaware. I hope someone from the factory is checking this page out, I realy like the Ulysess alot and I would like it to run like it did before the dealer fixed it until it runs like cr*p. I am also very, very impressed with the Buell position on customer responsivness (eg the side stand)I sure do hate to post that I turned a Uly in based upon lemon laws but I must do what I must to make this situation right and have a bike that I can continue to jump on and ride across country. | ||
| Mramsey |
If it is just a botched up tps reset which will make it run poorly. There is a guy in Country, Maryland named Thad user id T9r. He is on the tps reset volunteer database. Don't know how far he is from you. But you could PM him. Look here. http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/32777/218026.html?1154521008 | ||
| Aeholton |
Was the AFV reset when the technician did the service? If so, the bike should be run above 3500rpm for 10 minutes or so afterward for the ecm to "re-learn". You may want to reset the TPS and AFV then take a nice long run at > 3500rpms. Do you have VDSTS or know someone close by with it? | ||
| Daves |
Pso, I think it is something simple. Have the dealer recheck the TPS,AFV,ride the bike at the constant RPM like Aeholton says. Try that. PS Threatening a "Lemon Law" suit is NOT the way to get help from a company. YMMV, I'm just sayin | ||
| Pso |
Thanks fellows-this gives me something more to work on. I like the bike alot and want it to work, but right now it is not rideable. Dave-I am not going to threaten a Lemon Law issue - threats get one nowhere. I made that statement because if I have a bike that is not rideable and the dealer says it is just fine but it is not and then they tell me to bring it in and I will get it back in about three weeks time then I want my money back. I cannot moraly sell a bike that is at this time is this flawed. Thus I willl need to know what the lemon laws are. I also need a bike for commuting and also recreation. I have a week and 1 day before the first scheduled trip. Again everyones input i sgreatly appreciated. Paul | ||
| Daves |
ooookay? Good luck with that. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Anybody in the Omaha, Nebraska area? If not, when I get around to getting the VDSTS software I'll help out fellow Buellers. | ||
| Whodom |
Paul, I'd suggest trying riding at ~3500 RPM constant for a few miles as others have suggested. If that doesn't fix it, call Buell Customer Service and let them know of your problem (carried bike in for service, now it runs like crap, dealer wants 3 wks to fix). Maybe your dealer just needs a little guidance from HQ on how to straighten it out. | ||
| Court |
Paul: Drop me a note with your contact info. "Yeah. . . . we can fix that" | ||
| 44mag2 |
Buell Customer service will help you out. I have had good luck so far. Call today. | ||
| Eor |
Timing, perhaps? | ||
| Debueller |
Pso, Contact Court, (3 posts above) He WILL get results. No doubt about it. | ||
| Blake |
Paragraphs are good. Sounds like boofed TPS reset to me. | ||
| Dave |
Buell (collectively) needs to get situations like this 100% right and I believe they want to. The Service Manager and GM are avenues to resolve as well but admittedly...some could care less. I'm betting on something simple and missed due to inexperience. Buell could solve this by selling more! (What a vicious but inviting circle) Court "The Enabler" makes things happen ... he's like one of the Buell Jedi. Seek him and Buell Customer Service. But I'd only open one door at a time and stay positive. Ask for assistance as you really seem to want. DAve (Message edited by dave on August 24, 2006) | ||
| Birdmanrh |
1000 miles on a bike that is on the recall list? When did you buy it? | ||
| Steveford |
How far are you from Lancaster, PA? If you can swing it, I'll get you going while you wait. Steve Ford | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Court never answered my oil pump question. Must of been too technical. http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/142838/221033.html | ||
| Pso |
I sure do appreciate all the feedback and assistance offered In obverse order: 1-Steve a most generous offer and I sent you a pm back channel 2-Birdmanrh-I have owned the bike for about 2 months. The recall was for the side stand -Buell sure did come through on a very fast fix with rapid distibution of replacement parts. This type of service and customer concern is what was a major attraction of Buell to me. 3-Dave You are the voice of reason. I sent Court an email thanking him for any assistance he can provide but at this time I am going to follow all the recommendations of the board and that if and when I run into a dead end then I will take him up on his kind offer. Until then I will attempt to handle this in the manner of a reasonable man. 4-Blake the boofed TPS was my original concern along with perhaps a pinched EVA cable. I was able to get back to the dealer last wed and they did re-zero the TPS. 5 Debueller-see my note to Dave(3) 6 EOR good point I remember reading about the timing issue earlier on this board, I sort of discounted it originaly because the issue was around pinging problems which I am not aware of occuring at this time with my bike. Would the symptoms I am experiencing be congruent with a timing problem? 7 44mag I will do this early next week if the problem is still persisting. 8 Whodon,Daves and Aeholton-First I do not know what the AFV is. I read the service manula and could not find it. The latest update-I went for a ride last night stayed above 3500 closer to 4500 for over an hour I varied speed through shift changes but maintaned rpm and speed above 45-50mph. The bike seems much better than when I got it back originally after the 1000 mile service on the 16th. After taking the bike back to the dealer on wed the 23rd, as a result of my complaint about the bikes performance, they did an analysis and reset the TPS. there was still a problem with hesitation or surging but not as pronounced as prior to the reset. After the ride last night based upon suggestions from you folks, I am not able to get the problem to manifest as noticably at 3000 rpm and approx. 50 MPH as before but I can get it to present at 4000 rpm in 2nd. Being a psychologist I am well aware of the power of the mind to play tricks on a persons perception/propreoception and now I am not sure if I am feeling something that is not there, if I am being over sensative to a normal condition, if I am becoming desensatized to the new condition and do not remember the origanla state, or if the condition is sufficiently subsided but still present. The situation is similar to a tunning fork, at what point do you no longer hear it and are you sure you can no longer hear it. I am not sure what my next protocal will be-The bike is now rideable for the next trip I have planned for a week from today so these are the options that I see so far: A. I will ride it until it gets better or worse. B. Test drive a new Uly and check out if the same condition existes in a new bike. C. Find someone very familiar the XB12X and let them test ride it and validate my impression. D. If B and/or C then take Steve up on his kind offer-perhaps a ride up to Lancaster would be a nice trip. Or find out where T9R in County, Md is and contact him. E. Find out what the AFV is then call the dealership and see if they reset it. F. Wait until all of the above before recontacing the dealer and or Buell customer relations or Court. Again thanks to everyone and if you can give me more info/feedback/recommendations it is most gratfully accepted.I still think this is a terrific bike and I would like to keep it. I just wish there was someone close by that realy knew the ins and out of this fine piece of machinery. (Steve you reading this? Tad how about you?) Paul | ||
| Lorazepam |
pso, the AFV is reset when your ride for around 10-15 minutes at a steady 3500 rpm. It is a value in the ECM that regulates the air fuel ratio depending on weather, altitude etc. | ||
| Daves |
Glad it is getting better.  | ||
| Pso |
One other thing- I just filled up got 41 Miles per gallon this tank down from around 48 to 50 MPG before the dealer did the 1000 mile work. I do not know if (close to 15-18% drop) is significant or not. Lorazepam- must I hold as steady as possible at 3500 not 4500 rpm for the reset of the AFV? I was over 4000 for the hour that I rode last night? Another question folks-could this be a tire problem-it has not been mentioned before as a possible contributor? I have never taken the tensioner off nor relaxed the tension on the belt, I read about the procedure, is there some way that when rebuttoning the belt and tensioner up that there could be some sort of misallignment that could cuase a strange sensation in the handling/performance? I did recheck all my suspension settings after the 16th just to make sure they were still at the settings that I had them. Thaks Paul | ||
| Lorazepam |
I think you can vary the rpm a bit, it seems to be a consensus here that right around 3500 is the best place for that reset. | ||
| Henrik |
Court never answered my oil pump question. Must of been too technical. Could be that Court has a daytime job that has nothing to do with motorcycles at all, and that he being inundated with requests for assistance ... not all of them polite either ... making it tough to get to the less urgent questions answered on the spot. Just a thought  Henrik | ||
| Pso |
Lorazepam-After the improvement that I have experienced doing the high rpm reset last night I will try the 3500 rpm on the way home tonight Thanks Paul | ||
| Dragon_slayer |
My head hurts!  | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
I just asked a legit question and got a non-sensical answer and never a followup with any other kind of answer. If Court takes offense I'm sure he can stick up for himself. | ||
| Henrik |
If Court takes offense I'm sure he can stick up for himself. Oh, I know he can - but see Court is a nice guy - me however ... not so much  All the questions that *do* get answered here get answered because someone takes time out of their day to sit down and type something up. None of us work here - it is no ones job to provide customer service and no one gets paid to search out questions and provide the answers - Court included. You're absolutely correct - your question is certainly "legit" and it *would* be interesting to know what caused the change and what advantages it might bring to older bikes, if any. But your question being "legit" does not necessarily mean anyone is obliged to answer it. It also doesn't mean anyone who is free to discuss such things actually has the answer. I think maybe people sometimes forget that. Like I said before, just a thought. If you care to continue this discussion, please feel free to contact me off-line via the PM function in my profile so as to avoid further thread-jack. Henrik (Message edited by Henrik on August 25, 2006) | ||
| Birdmanrh |
Pso, Someone gave me a suggestion on how to start me Uly and since then I have never had a surging issue. Not sure if it is real or superstition, but it works. Basically the first time you start the bike you make sure not to touch the throttle. Turn the key on, then flip the switch. Wait for the light to turn out and then hit the starter. Don't touch the throttle. Let the bike idle for a couple minutes and then ride like normal. No surging! | ||
| Cyclonedon |
Paul, please be patient with your Uly problem. they will get it fixed for you! I had the same problem this last Wednesday 8/23/06 when I took my Ulysses in for the 5000 mile service. When I went to pick it up, I pushed it out the door and started it up only to notice that it coughed and was running rough. It wouldn't idle steady so I took it for a short ride and brought it back to the dealer that same day. I showed the service tech what it was doing and he took it back in and tried resiting the TPS once again. He then test drove it and it still wasn't right so they worked on it some more and found the problem with the reset. I'm NOT a mechanic so I can't explain what it was that they had to do but anyway it was fixed in about an hour. Now it runs perfect once again. My Ulysses is by far the BEST motorcycle I've ever owned and I've been riding motorcycles since the late 1960's. Don't give up on your Ulysses because you'll be sorry if you do! Everyone on here is hoping for a fast fix for your motorcycle because we all love the bikes! | ||
| Blake |
Yep! Incompetent techs! Buell, if possible, please make the TPS reset even more of a no brainer. | ||
| Pso |
Latest update- 1-Lorazepam-I rode home last night at 3500 rpm, again it seemed to work a little better. bike seems to slowly be repairing itself-amazing- Or I am becoming more accustomed to it. I hope the former 2-Dragon slayer-take two asperin(or pain kiler of your choice) and call me in the morning 3-Birdman that is how they instructed me to do it when I purchased the bike. It is interesting if you take the faux gas tank off and hold the throttle open when you are starting the bike you can watch the pulley on the EVA operate. That is how I checked to make sure the cable was being activated when I started on this adventure. 4-cycledon thanks for the support and encouragment-I just wish my dealer were more like yours. My problem is that they said there was no problem,the service fellow said he test drove it after the first time and it was good, then the mechaninc test drove it before reseting the TPS and also said that he did not notice anything. I realy do want to keep this bike for a long time when it is running well (and it seems to be getting better) it runs great. 5-Blake I agree or perhaps in areas like mine, where there is no market for the Buells, only large Harley cruisers, use other dealers (Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, etc) to represent Buell. A staff member at one Harley dealership over here by the ocean said they do want to have anything to do with Buells because they cannot sell them. My latest update for those following this thread. I did what Lorazpam suggested and perhaps the bike is better still. I also got some figures from the dealership that worked on the bike. I am not a mechanic so I am not sure what they mean any explantaion will be most helpful. From a Computer genreated screen called Calibration+Systems Info screen Upper left corner - TP Degrees 5.3 Upper right corner - RPM RPM 0 Lower left corner - TP SENSOR VOLTS 1.01 Lower right corner - ET F 147 Under this grid on the left - TPS Zero Under the grid on the right - Zero Guide The second page has what is called a data list.Running down the list: TPS 1.08 volts Engine Temp 323 f Engine speed 1075 RPM Spark Advance front 0.0 degrees Spark Advance rear 0.0 Degrees engine temp sensor 0.97 Volts Intake air temp 148F Intke air temp sensor 2.03 Volts Oxygen Sensor 0.78 volts Air/Fuel ratio Rich Fuel system loop status Closed Loop Adaptive Fuel Value 104% Throttle Position 6.7 Degrees Throttle Position 7% Battery voltage 13.90 volts Bank Angle sensor Mode Run Mode Bank Angle Sensor 1.21 Volts Check engine Lamp Off Vehicle Speed count 0 counts Cooling fan duty Cycle 0% Cooling fan state Off AMC Feedback Closed AMC State Closed I have no idea what most of this stuff means but perhaps I can be enlightened. thanks Paul | ||
| Blake |
I believe your TPS volts may be out of range. Not sure on that. Someone who knows for sure will hopefull comment. I'm thinking that at throttle closed the TPS should read around 0.5V. Your TPS voltage is shown for what appears to be the idle setting, which is not for throttle fully closed; you'd have to back out the idle screw all the way and snap the throttle closed in order to see that particular reading. So you may be okay. Just something to consider. From where are you getting the info, a VDSTS? | ||
| Blake |
The fact that after the subsequent TPS reset, the issue improved somewhat is what leads me to believe that the TPS zero/rezero/reset is what is causing the problem, that and the particular symptoms you describe. | ||
| Dragon_slayer |
All these facts and figures ----- my head still hurts!  Ride it until she's blows and we will analysis the pieces later. Seriously doc, find a mechanic you can trust and let him/her take your worries away. It can be hard or easy enough when you do know what you are doing. Troubleshooting over the Internet -- does that mean no office visit fee?  | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Seeing as the VDSTS is software is there a possibility that it doesn't read the voltage correctly from the dongle? I mean who would trust a gold assayer's scale without first checking it with a known standard weight. I haven't as yet purchased this VDSTS but wonder how a person calibrates it to some standard??? Please enlighten me. Everything needs some kind of calibration. That's what the TPS reset is all about, recalibration. But the recalibration device (VDSTS) certainly needs to be checked for precision and accuracy now and then to keep it honest. (Message edited by electraglider_1997 on August 27, 2006) | ||
| Heyfred |
Took my XB12R to the dealer 3 times for the same issue. Final straw was when the bike hesitated in a busy intersection while turning and almost causing me to go down. The shops don't have a clue to cause and affect ( very poor training ) or they don't want to do warranty on Buells'. Went home and and used my automotive computer service skills and figured it out. If I remember correctly, it to me approxitmitly 3hrs. to change them out. My intake manifold seals were stuck solid on the intake. Intake manifold seals were sticking to the intake as the cylinders grew while the engine was getting warmer. Causes an air leak,O2 sensor tells the computer to richen because it sensed more O2 in the exhaust.  When changing the seals, put a film of wheel bearing grease on the seals where the intake goes through, this will help prevent the intake from sticking to the seals as the cylinders grow. My bike runs like champ now. Keith (Message edited by heyfred on September 04, 2006) | ||
| Diablobrian |
The dealerships are the acknowledged weak link in the Buell chain. I hope it gets better soon. I'm glad you got your bike fixed though! Good job. |
