| Author | Message | ||
     Davo |
xbimmer, Check out "ulybagger" on AVrider. By the way I am Ultra Uly there. (Davo was already taken) http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147397&page=3 | ||
| Davo |
As for the sidestand it is very important to keep the pivot bolt from getting loose. Get some help to hold the bike and remove the pivot bolt and clean it with some brake cleaner let it dry and then put red thread locker on it and send it home. Check it from time to time. Also make sure the bracket is not loose. When the size, length and thread specs are posted I am going to replace mine with some grade 8 bolts. | ||
| Xbimmer |
Thanks Davo! Looks like another Forum to prowl!  Regarding the stand, I won't have a pivot bolt after this weekend. When I ordered a spare stand I got a "sidestand leg service kit" which subs the stock parts for a new (hopefully strengthened) leg and a pivot pin instead of a bolt. Pin is big diameter all the way and retains with an e-ring through a modified leg clevis. Maybe some of the insiders here can comment soon on this kit I got. (Message edited by xbimmer on July 01, 2006) | ||
| Davo |
Where did you get it? Is it factory? | ||
| Xbimmer |
Davo, when the parts guy ordered for me we thought I was getting just a replacement leg. I don't know whether he misordered (lucky me!) or this is what Buell sends instead of a new leg, but yes it's factory. Barcode label is Buell, part number L1167.1AK, "Sidestand Leg Service Kit". Under $60. Instructions and diagrams clearly indicate this as a replacement kit for stock sidestand. The suspect bracket bolts are not included, maybe there will be a "Trash Your Whole Original Stand Service Kit" soon! | ||
| Ulybagger |
I'm over here to. Rode the bike today and she ran great. It's spooling up nice through the RPM's and I noticed a whole lot less vibration. I think I may hear a little knocking if I let it sit around 4500 rpms but I can't tell for sure. I find I'm trying to hear something now. I'll give it a couple day's. Maybe try a small tweak. | ||
| Davo |
Get it good and hot and load it at 2000-2500 rpm. If it doesn't ping there you should not ping at 4500. Go and get stuck in traffic that is a great ping tester. The next time you are ridding run third gear at 3000 rpm and let the engine float you down the road. You should hear a bunch of valve train chatter. That is what you are most likely hearing at 4500. If you are using synthetic oil, though I think it is a must, it does make the engine louder. You will hear more valve train and there is a lot of valve train! It is a good idea to listen for the different frequency of the valve train vs. ping. Valve train has a chattering rhythm, pinging has a random clanking and knocking. | ||
| Xbimmer |
Davo, out of curiosity, how does synth make an engine noisier? Also, my dealer here doesn't stock either the outer timing cover screws or the rivets. Do you know what the screw specs are? | ||
| Davo |
Though the synthetic oil protects better than conventional oil it is has a thinner consistency than the equivalent grade of conventional. A good example of this is examine a bottle of synthetic gear oil by shaking it. You would swear that it was 10w-30 and not 75w-90. Even at room temperature the synthetic appears thin. It may appear thin but it will protect. HD Syn 3 can be used in all three holes of a HD big twin, because of the enhanced properties of the synthetic oil. 20w-50 Syn 3 meets the same requirements (GL-1) as the "thicker/heavier" HD Semi-synthetic Transmission oil. The thinner properties of the synthetic allow it to flow easier during cold weather starts as well. Another example is to listen closely to the right side lifter area of your Buell when it is just started/cold and then when you return from a long ride in hot weather. When it is hot it will sound like you have water in it and not oil but don't worry that synthetic oil is doing it's job. What makes synthetic special is not what is in it; it is what is not in it! I hope this helps. (Message edited by davo on July 02, 2006) (Message edited by davo on July 02, 2006) (Message edited by davo on July 02, 2006) (Message edited by davo on July 02, 2006) | ||
| Davo |
xbimmer, black rivets-C0044.02A8A The dealer will have mill finish HD (Sportster 03 and earlier) in stock Ten per bag, part no. 8699 aprx. 1.00 each (10.00 per bag) I bought two stainless steel allen head bolts 10-32 for .41 each at my local hardware. Just need to tap the inner cover. | ||
| Davo |
Ulybagger, I gave you some bad advice in my last post. You could be having pre-ignition at 4500 and not experience it at lower rpm. With the stock ECM at just above 4000 rpm the spark advance goes to 43 from a previous 35. The timing is significantly advanced at rpm above that point. If you crank the throttle past the 40% point and the pining goes away then it is a timing issue. The timing will retard at TPS of greater than 40% at all of the rpm ranges that are 4000 and higher. I thought about your problem last night so today I got my bike to replicate your pinging problem and then I determined what your problem may be and how to fix it. | ||
| Xbimmer |
Thanks Davo, the oil explanation makes sense. I'd use it in my old Beemer but synth likes to find ways out of an engine and with an old air-boxer there are plenty of opportunities! So a 10-32 self tapper screw should work? | ||
| Davo |
I used a tap and then installed a 10-32 standard screw. I have not tried a self tapper but it should work. Try it first on the two holes that are not used. That way if it messes up you can regroup. A 8-32 is a little too loose but will hold. | ||
| Xbimmer |
Thanks Davo! | ||
| Davo |
After a great deal of experimentation with the timing of my Uly I can report that the timing map on this bike is misleading. There is no information regarding the dynamic timing setting in degrees and no explanation or documentation of the timing curve. I have had numerous problems with my Uly and I have arrived at the point where I do regret the purchase. I do agree that it is an outstanding motorcycle when it operates correctly. | ||
| Buelldyno_guy |
Davo, I am working on a revised timing table with the D/L software. This bike is Very Lean at the upper end of the "Closed Loop" area in the map. I think I heard pinging when it was new and now know for sure I did and it got worse when I installed my Micron. I have revised the timing tables and now think that I got rid of 99.5% of it. I need and few more long rides where I am in the upper end of closed loop. Al at American Sport Bike will have the finished map when I am sure it's OK. ... Terry | ||
| Davo |
Buelldyno guy, It is my understanding that the D/L advance numbers are in addition to the static setting if you set the bike up according to the book. I used a light and watched the VDSTS and put it right on the number that was displayed on the laptop. There was a big disparity in the set up! For example if you have a static setting of 7 degrees and you add 35 degrees then you have a total of 43 degrees. The race module has about 4-5 degrees more advance at 3000 rpm at 40 percent TPS and above than the stock map. What ECM are you running now? I am bone stock and no pining 100 percent!! If you set the timing up according to the book and when the VDSTS shows 0 degrees advance you will not even see the mark in the window with a light!! If I were to change the map I would build the static number into the map by advancing all the numbers below 1500 rpm and then retard the mid range and top end curve by at least that amount and use the light to set it up. I would like to see your numbers if you get it to work. | ||
| Buelldyno_guy |
All the timing advance should be in the ECM the static timing should be set at Zero. ... The reason for this is that there is some serious math inside the ECM and it's all based on the timing starting at Zero. ... The tables are close but I beleve the rear cyl offset needs some work. ... My changes so far have not had any effect on the power or torque and have reduced almost all the pinging. ... Terry | ||
| Davo |
Buelldyno guy, That is my point entirely. If you set up the timing the way the book reads then you are not at TDC when the ECM indicates that you are at TDC (0 degrees). The only way I found this out was by double checking the factory specifications with a light and I found a 7-9 degree error in the set up. If you think I have made an error then please check it yourself and let me know what you find. The problem is if you watch the VDSTS numbers and set the engine according to the factory then you actually have 7-9 degrees more timing advance than you think you have. | ||
| Buelldyno_guy |
We check all new bikes during the "PDI" and find too many with the static timing off. ... Once corrected all of these bikes run great for stock bikes. ... You can do the static timing by removing the timing plug and with the bike on a stand or jacked up on a lift rotate it until the mark is at 0. or TDC. Then with the key on, rotate the timing plate until you hear the fuel pump start. Tighten the plate back up, put it back together and go ride. | ||
| Davo |
But if you were to look at the timing mark after you set the initial timing straight up then watch the VDSTS data you would see that the timing is off. There is a 7-9 degrees disparity from what the VDSTS indicates the ECM is doing vs. what the bike's ignition is actually doing. | ||
| Snowscum |
The pinging that you guys are talking about is during a certain temp right? I noticed mine only pings when it like 85f and above with little humidity. I was going to relay this to my mech so I need to clarify. Thanks in advance. | ||
| Davo |
That is correct. The problem is that in southern Virginia it is 85 F or greater about 5 months out of the year and now we have 10 percent ethanol gas. Even though I was using 93 octane fuel my bike was pinging. I will not own an engine that pings! Pinging is very destructive. There is a misconception that air cooled engines ping. I will argue that overheated out of tune air cooled engines ping. The reason most people accept it is that they don't realize they can de-tune the engine and stop it. If your engine pings then pull a plug and look for small aluminum particles on it with a magnifying glass, that is your piston. | ||
| Davo |
Snowscum, I responded to your post on AV rider regarding your visit to your dealer. I am "ULtraULy" on AV rider. "Davo" was already taken. I hope they can fix the pinging problem. If not just let us know. | ||
| Blake |
Just one thought to add to all this: In cases where there is pinging at low throttle openings but not at WOT an intake manifold air leak is indicated. | ||
| Buelldyno_guy |
Davo when I say Static I mean without the bike running. When you are using the VDSTS are you reading it static or at idle? The timing tables are used by the ECM for look-up and based on T/P, RPM. Engine Temp the ECM does the math and selects the value from the tables. That's why the static timing needs to be at zero, if not it skews the values it selects. ... Again my issue is the Timing Table values them selves and the rear cyl offset. ... Terry | ||
| Davo |
Buelldyno guy, Yes, I understand the factory static timing procedure. My issue was when I check the bikes dynamic timing (engine running) with the VDSTS hooked up and a timing light hooked up, the light showed different values than the VDSTS data. I set used the front cylinder spark data as a data field. For example static ("straight up"/"Buell setting") is how you set your timing. With a stock ECM at idle (less that 1500 rpm) with engine temperatures above 338 F there is no advance (o degrees), why then if you have a light hooked up to your engine is the TDC mark so far to the left that you cant even see it. I conclude that there is a disparity between the static straight up setting vs. the dynamic VDSTS data values. VDSTS might be wrong and the Buell procedure might be wrong but the light is never wrong. There is a large number of people that have some pinging in warmer weather. If they do not mind pinging then their bikes are tuned perfectly. I for one will not tolerate pinging during normal everyday operation even if it 95 F outside. In warmer weather there is constant dialog on this site and others about ULy pinging. They install air scoops and fuel additives and re-tune the fuel side of the ECM with aftermarket software like D/L yet no one has double checked their dynamic timing with what they think the ECM is supposed to be doing. I yield to the masses on this one. Davo out! | ||
| Buelldyno_guy |
I spoke to Al this morning concerning your post. We believe that the timing tables are just that look-up tables the ECM uses. Al had observed that with the Buell Scananlizer hooked up you will see the timing advanced 5-6 deg at idle when you know that the Timing table look-up value is Zero, but if you let the bike sit there and idle until the rear cyl head temp starts to climb you will see the timing start to drop back towards Zero. So it may be that you are not looking when the engine is at full operating temp. Again my issue is some pinging I hear at different engine temp and air temp. There are a few cells in the stock tables where the rear is advanced ahead of the front. Most 45deg V twin tuners like to see a 1-4 deg rear off-set. When I have it all gone I will post my findings, but until then I want to hold the specifics of what I have done. ... Terry | ||
| Davo |
I was at operating temperature. I ran it till I almost cooked it. As the engine temps increased the advance dropped to zero at about the 330 F mark. The Uly is just getting warmed up at 330. I watched and waited for the correct time to check the dynamic timing and there was a disparity between actual timing light results and the VDSTS data. The VDSTS was reading zero and the light was showing a significant difference (7-9 degrees of advance). Please do not take my word for it. I would really like someone else to verify my results. Either VDSTS is wrong or the factory setting has some "built in"/"initial advance" that most tuners are not aware of. If you guys use 43-45 degrees advance in the upper end and you have a 7-9 degree initial setting then you are at the edge of the envelope. (Message edited by davo on July 10, 2006) | ||
| Buelldyno_guy |
Again all we do is set the Static and then let the ECM Timing tables take care of it. My Bike was not pinging at WOT on top it was the rear cyl at lower RPM and T/P. ... Terry |
