| Author | Message | ||
     Az_m2 |
I just had the first service done on my ULY. The dealer used SYN3 for the primary fluid. Owner's manual says to use FORMULA+ TRANSMISSION AND PRIMARY CHAINCASE LUBRICANT, (part no. 98851). How important is it to use the recommended fluid? Should I not ride the bike until I replace it? When I picked the bike up, I questioned the service writer about it and he said that the tech confirmed that SYN3 was ok to use. | ||
| Mikej |
We had this discussion on the site here already. I'm thinking you'd be wise to go back and insist they put in the Formula+ stuff, something about the clutch requiring it. If they refuse then get them to guarantee warranty coverage should any issues arise. Just my 2cents. | ||
| Henrik |
AFAIR from magazine and Buell write-ups: the use of the new, lighter pull clutch (lighter clutch spring) was made possible, partly due to the use of the new transmission fluid. I would insist on having the correct transmission fluid put in the bike. Unless of course you don't mind being the lab rat  Henrik | ||
| Thunderbox |
I have the same problem and I have told the dealer I won't be bringing in my machine until they have the correct fluid. If Syn3 were ok why would they have gone to all the trouble to develope a special fluid for the bike? Think about it. I bet they didn't even know there was a new fluid. I know my dealer had to be told by me or they would have put the old sport trans in for sure. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Out of curiosity, does the clutch slip now? | ||
| Thunderbox |
Hi Guys, Just got off the phone with the dealer here. (service guys) They tell me that the new Formula + is to be used in all Harley Davidson cavities except the engine. This includes the big bikes and the small bikes. I am also told that Syn3 can also be used in any cavity in the bikes including the engine. So there are only going to be 2 fluids for Harleys now. The new Formula+ and Syn3 both interchangable except in the engine cavity. So you are okay with Syn3 in the sporttrans cavity on the Uly. Apparently they don't even have the Formula+ in Canada and may not get it. They probably wouldn't have both fluids but it is a price point thing. | ||
| Henrik |
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| Az_m2 |
The clutch seems to operate fine, shifting seems to be the same, and I've had no slipping. The only thing I noticed was at my first stop after picking up the bike, I had trouble finding neutral. Since that first stop though, no problems. There must be a benefit to using the new fluid. I'm with Henrick | ||
| Reepicheep |
I asked because I always had a sneaking suspicion you could take 30% of the spring out of a sportser clutch anyway with ZERO slilppage problems. When was the last time anybody ever heard of a streetable sporty motor with a slipping clutch? Anyone want to guess at the results if you were to compare Mobil 1 gear oil to Formula+  I betcha Formula+ is just a full synthetic formulation of the old sport trans, and the "new clutch" is just the old clutch with less overkill. (Message edited by reepicheep on September 22, 2005) | ||
| Henrik |
It'll be interesting to find out if you're right Bill. Are there any other differences to the new clutch? If you could swap the new plates and spring into the older Buells, that'd be a nice upgrade when time comes to change clutch plates anyway. Henrik | ||
| Az_m2 |
The clutch on my M2 slips when leaned way over to the right in first gear. I'm going to replace the syn3 with the formula+ this weekend, as long as I can find some. | ||
| Bienhoabob |
On page 27 of the October Motorcycle Consumer News mag. it states that for Buells and Sportsters Harley is using a new transmission fluid that extends the service intervals to 10,000 miles. This must be the formula + you guys are talking about. My vote would be to insist on the new formula. | ||
| Thunderbox |
Listen up guys, Harley is going to only two fluids. The cheapest of the two is going to be the Formula+ the best of the two is Syn3. That will be the only two fluids they will carry other than regular engine oil also. In your old Buell owners manual it didn't say use Syn3 in the tranny and engine but we did. Just like it doesn't say use Syn3 in the new owners manual. So don't worry about using Syn3 in the Uly, as I said earlier they may not even carry the Formula+ in Canada at all ever. | ||
| Opto |
I have a Uly clutch spring being sent to me to be fitted into an 04 XB12S which will be run with the Mobil 1 gear oil eventually, after whatever the dealer puts in there is due for changing. I think I need a special tool to change the spring out, so it looks like a dealer job. Will post back if it ever starts slipping. I think you're right Reep, I've never heard of a slipping clutch on a Sporty or a Buell. | ||
| Henrik |
Opto; all you'd need is a spring compressor: All at American Sport Bike has those. For some reason the BBS won't let me post the link?? Henrik | ||
| Cyclone4fun |
Henrik, you can use the new clutch pieces in older H-D / Buell models. There was a German company making this thing for a few years and selling it for $150.00. The H-D piece is quite a bit less. As far as SYN3 is concerned, below is a piece from a FAQ section on the factory website (dealer only site). It should answer your questions on SYN3. Q: What kind of testing was done on SYN3? A: Over three years of laboratory bench testing, dynamometer testing under accelerated conditions, open road vehicle durability testing, closed course durability testing, and wear and deposit rating analysis. Q: How many miles have been put on motorcycles during development? A: In addition to the bench testing that was completed during the formulation process, additional testing can be broken down as follows: o Engine Testing-230,000+ miles of durability testing and 81 hrs. of dyno testing o Transmission Testing-200,000+ miles of durability testing and 430 hrs. of dyno testing o Clutch Testing-170,000+ miles of clutch testing Q: What vehicle powertrain cavities can be filled with SYN3? A: SYN3 can be used in the engine, primary chaincase, and transmission. Q: What powertrains can this product be used in? A: Evolution XL, Evolution1340, Twin Cam 88 (all displacements), Revolution, and all Buell models. ... hope this helps! | ||
| Henrik |
Cool, thanks for the info Steve Henrik | ||
| Branebanger |
I've had (prim/trans) syn3/syn3 and syn3/form+, both for at least 3k miles each. no clutch slippage. on a related note - how much primary oil has your Uly used up? (Message edited by branebanger on September 24, 2005) | ||
| Buelldyno_guy |
Buell / H-D has issued a Service Bulletin on this subject and Syn3 is not the oil of choice for 06 Buell's, Sporster's and Dyna's. Yes the dealer who 1st serviced Branebanger's Uly used syn3. I spoke to that shop when we serviced his bike during his trip. Following that discussion and based on the Factory SB we used Formula+ in the Primary/Trans and syn3 in the engine. "Yes this is a change in in thinking at H-D. That "One oil may not work every where and still have the best results. ... Can we get an anonymous poster to get something out before this gets more confusing than it already is. ... Thanks Terry | ||
| Branebanger |
hey Terry, didnt mean to confuse things. how's things in Vallejo? my fiance and I are starting to look for houses in california  | ||
| Buelldyno_guy |
You didn't, But there has been a mixed message about the new oil and if it replaces syn3. Someone needs to get the straight scoop out??? On the other item hope you are thinking about N. CA and we have lots of roads to show you if you come up our way. ... Terry | ||
| Lowflyer |
I took mine in for the break-in service today. The service guys had not heard of Formula+. I was adamant and even went to the parts guys to make sure they had some on hand before I let them touch my bike. They all said that Sport-Trans will work fine. I said that if it was okay to use, the owner's manual would say so. | ||
| Buelldyno_guy |
I am on the road, on vacation, (in my motor-home), but when I get back will follow up with our District Service Manager who is picking up his Uly this week. You guys, please don't confuse what the old oils including syn3 were approved for, with the factory recommended oil for a new style of transmission. By the way, this is Dinosaur oil not synthetic and I have submitted a quart to Red Line for analysis and a synthetic product cross-reference. Until I am sure that a synthetic can meet the spec I am going to use Formula + PS My new Black Uly has been shipped and may be home when I get back to work. ... Terry | ||
| Al_lighton |
Terry, I'm with you. I suspect other stuff will work, but I'm not putting it in my Uly just yet. Please keep us informed on what you find out. I have been running Mobil 1 75-90 gear oil in my other Buells. I thought it made them shift better. But the Uly shifts pretty darn good as is, so I'm not seeing a need to change from the recommended fluid at this time. | ||
| Cyclone4fun |
I know of no Factory Service Bulletin related to SYN3. This new product (Formula+) was developed in tandem with SYN3. Since SYN3 was a new synthetic it went through testing first and went to market first. Formula+ is just a better petroleum based lubricant that eliminates the 3 other lubricants; Sport-Trans, Semi-Synthetic and Primary Chaincase lube. So, you have the option of using the 2 petroleum based lubricants (HD360 and Formula+) or using SYN3. If anyone wants it in writing, post me privately with your fax number and I will fax the info straight from the Motor Company. | ||
| Kevinfromwebb |
When we were in Colorado at the BRAG ride a few weeks ago Erik spoke one morning about the ULY and other topics. He did speak about the new tranny fluid. Said it was part of the reason they could use softer clutch springs on the new models. He also said it was supposed to be slicker (smoother) tranny wise and was supposed to make the clutch grab better. I believe he also said you could use it on the previous models. If I had a '06 that would be what would go into it, NOT the syn 3... One of the Buell engineers who works and has worked with lubricants is the one who mixed it up... JMO... Kevin | ||
| Chadhargis |
The Formula+ juice is cheap enough, why take a chance. That's yet another reason I do my own maintenance. Don't want some Joe Blow dealer wrench putting the wrong dino juice in my ride. | ||
| Az_m2 |
When I switch back to the Formula+ after the dealer used SYN3 in my primary, I immediately noticed a difference. With the SYN3 the clutch was grabby in first gear, also didn't seem as smooth. With the formula+, it's smoother. | ||
| 04buell |
I have a question. Are the new transmission bikes shipped with the formula+, or is it dealer installed? | ||
| Branebanger |
I did 4k+miles on formula+, and 4k+ miles on syn3. I might just be lucky but everything was fine, no clutch slippage. The thing that made the most difference is changing the oil. After every change, the bike is noticeably smoother, and my bike did not get entirely broken/settled in until after 5k miles (imho) about the grabby clutch thing, I used to think the very same thing, but now, after 10k+ miles, I'm convinced its the suspension, and I just "think" its being grabby. try taking your bike to an absolutely smooth surface (i know hard to find) and then see if you notice a differnce. if you find its alot less grabby on smoother surfaces, maybe you might want ot play with the suspension. brane |
