| Author |
Message |
    
Birdmanrh
| | Posted on Monday, July 17, 2006 - 03:35 am: | 
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Thanks for the valve check, I guess I should have read the service book a little further. I had to anyway to find that the start switch needed to be on as well. 
It is fine.
I am thinking the wire touching and my level of use just might be the problem. It is just a little too hot to be riding too much right now, so I guess I will have to wait to find out! |
Bosh
| | Posted on Monday, July 17, 2006 - 09:04 am: |
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It's been 105F + around here the last few days. Haven't had any problems with overheating at all. In fact my fan doesn't even come on for my 10 mile commute from work until I shut the bike down in my garage. No problems haulin A*s on the back roads either.
I think you are on the right track with the temp sensor wire. |
Birdmanrh
| | Posted on Monday, July 17, 2006 - 07:03 pm: |
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Called and talked with Buell today. They issued me a case number and asked that I take the bike back to the dealer so that they may take them step by step through the trouble shooting.
Looks like the dealer will not be able to push this issue off. |
Fubar
| | Posted on Monday, July 17, 2006 - 07:07 pm: |
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I'm sure they'll get to the bottom of your issue. I rode nearly 250 miles in the above mentioned heat yesterday. *ZERO* pinging.
I am considering wrapping me headers now tho... |
Davo
| | Posted on Monday, July 17, 2006 - 10:35 pm: |
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Birdmanrh,
I have been thinking about your problem most of the day and that is why I am so late in responding. There are several questions that I have regarding your overheating condition.
1. Is the bike stock
2. What grade of fuel are you using and does it have 10% ethanol?
3. Was the bike hard to start when it was cold during the colder months?
4. If so did it kick back and fight the starter a little?
5. Are both of your stock air scoops in place?
6. Does the bike coast easily? Is there a brake dragging? Look for unusual amount of brake dust on the rotor.
7. Any pinging and if so under what conditions?
I would check your fan and make sure that the fan is not free wheeling on its drive shaft. I would do a plug check to see what they look like and if they are the right plugs. I would look for an intake manifold leak and check the condition of the ET sensor and its wiring harness. I would also check for a trouble codes specifically looking for a 23, 32, 14 or 33. I think it is a minor problem to fix but I know it is frustrating until it is identified.
(Message edited by davo on July 17, 2006) |
Birdmanrh
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 18, 2006 - 12:21 am: |
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The fan is working, just making a noise.
1. Is the bike stock
-YES
2. What grade of fuel are you using and does it have 10% ethanol?
-92 and YES
3. Was the bike hard to start when it was cold during the colder months?
-Only if I touched the throttle
4. If so did it kick back and fight the starter a little?
-Not that I remember
5. Are both of your stock air scoops in place?
-Yes
6. Does the bike coast easily? Is there a brake dragging?
Look for unusual amount of brake dust on the rotor.
-No more than brakes drag, nothing beyond normal
7. Any pinging and if so under what conditions?
-Yes, at hard acceleration at upper speeds.
Honestly, I am turning this over to the dealer on Wed and I have a Buell case number that will be tracking it.
(Message edited by BirdmanRH on July 18, 2006) |
Davo
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 18, 2006 - 04:10 am: |
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Birdmanrh,
I hope that they find the problem. I am looking forward to reading about a successful fix. I am going out on a familiar limb here and say that one of the heating issues is engine timing, due to even a slight ping combined with the high rate of speed that you have been cruising. Since you have pump gas with ethanol in it and you are getting some pinging at the high end then there is going to be a small amount of pre-detonation (pinging) that you may not even be able to detect. At 80-90 mph the engine is turning fast enough for the ECM to put about 43 degrees of spark advance into the engine. It is my opinion that even if your timing is set up correct according to the factory you are going to have spark advances of around 50 plus degrees which is pretty tight for pump gas with ethanol in the summer in Arizona in a air cooled engine with a 10 to 1 compression ratio. I would put some HD fuel conditioner in it and see if the bike ran cooler and if it did I would retard the timing 3-6 degrees. There could also be some off the wall internal issues with castings or an intake manifold leak that could cause the problem but I am sure the dealer will rule them out. Once again good luck. |
Arthurc
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 18, 2006 - 10:45 am: |
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My Uly also pinged on warmer days rolling on the throttle when reving between 3 and 4k. The dealer found the static timing to be a bit advanced. Retarded it slightly and now I have no issues. We're in a bit of a heat wave up here in the Ottawa area (>30C for the last few days) and the bike's yet to ping since the timing has been adjusted. Prior to that, it would ping at anything over 20C or so. |
Birdmanrh
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 18, 2006 - 02:10 pm: |
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FYI, the fuel conditioner does help for pinging.
I was not too worried about the pinging as it is they type that we are are sort of used to, not desired non-the-less. |
Davo
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - 09:08 pm: |
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Birdmanrh,
If you were having pinging at higher speeds and you were overheating during high speed operation then I think that is the cause of your overheating problem. It is about a five minute fix. If the dealer comes up empty then let us know. |
Birdmanrh
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - 10:46 pm: |
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Yes, that is exactly what is happening. I have Buell involved, so what is the fix? |
Stevenknapp
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - 10:57 pm: |
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"I would put some HD fuel conditioner in it and see if the bike ran cooler and if it did I would retard the timing 3-6 degrees. There could also be some off the wall internal issues with castings or an intake manifold leak that could cause the problem but I am sure the dealer will rule them out. Once again good luck." |
Davo
| | Posted on Thursday, July 20, 2006 - 02:28 am: |
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Birdmanrh,
Here is a copy of a post that I made on another thread. I tried to put it in the KV forum but I was unable so here it is again:
1. Drill out the two rivets on the timing cone cover. Be very careful not to scratch up the cover. A new/sharp 1/8” or 3/16” drill bit works well. After going through the rivet just walk the bit around the perimeter of the hole until the rivet head falls off. Do not extend the bit into the case more than about 3/8”- ½”.
2. Remove the outer timing cover.
3. Remove the two Phillips screws that hold the inner cover.
4. Remove the inner cover.
5. Very carefully index the CPS (cam position sensor) base plate with the inside of the timing cone so that you know where the timing was before you changed it. You can always go back to the factory setting. I used a very small dental style pick to scratch a mark on the outer perimeter of the CPS base and the same point on the inner cone of the cover. The index marks should be very fine because each millimeter is equivalent to 3 degrees of spark timing. My marks are so fine that I need to use a magnifying glass to make sure the index marks are correct.
6. Loosen the two CPS base plate fasteners just enough to free the CPS enough to rotate. You need a large flat head screw driver. I use a hollow ground screw driver that fits the slot exactly so the fasteners do not get marred up.
7. Rotate the CPS plate 1mm counter-clockwise to retard the timing 3 degrees. If you have a wire type spark plug gapping gauge the .040 gauge is exactly 3 degrees.
Note- The inner cover diameter is 78 mm therefore the circumference is 245.0442 mm (diameter X pi (3.1416)). There is 720 crank degrees (two full turns 2 X 360) for every full rotation of the cam so divide 245.0442 by 720 and you get 0.3403 mm for each degree of the crank. So then 3 degrees is equal to 1.0210 mm.
8. Make sure there is no rivet debris in the cone area.
9. Tighten the flat head fastening screws (do not over tighten them just snug them down) and verify that the CPS has moved about 1 mm counter clockwise by looking at the space that now exists between the two index marks.
10. I recommend that you reinstall the inner cover plate with the Phillips screws, being careful not to over tighten them, and leave the outer cover off until you know the new setting is satisfactory. If you are concerned about dust and water then put a little electrical tape over the rivet holes.
10. After several test rides, re-install the outer cover with new HD rivets (you will need a rivet pop rivet gun and be VERY careful because when it pops you WILL scratch the cover if you do not put a cloth around the nose or the rivet gun) or you can remove the inner cover and tap the two rivet holes with a 10-32 tap and purchase two stainless steel hex head 10-32 bolts about 3/8” long. The tap and the bolts are cheaper than a bag of ten HD rivets. There are two holes that you do not use so practice the tap with them. Do not try to tap the holes with the inner cover in place. If you go this route then you can make timing adjustments on the road if you find a tank of bad gas or you can wind up your timing at the track when “go fast” fuel is available. Always give your AFV about 15 minutes of easy run time to readjust after you readjust.
I would recommend checking your static timing just for kicks before the procedure. Just follow the manual and substitute the fuel pump turning on for the scanyliser going to 5 volts. Get some assistance with this it is very easy to scratch up your air box with your belt or even drop the bike if you attempt it alone. I use fifth gear and slowly push the bike. Be careful not to let debris get into the timing window and once again do not over tighten the timing plug. Its torque specification is 120 in-lbs which is only 10 ft-lbs. If you tighten the plug any more than that it will strip the case! Always use anti seize when steel threads into aluminum. Just a little film is necessary on the threads. Always start the threads and turn the plug in by hand. I use a 3/8” drive 3/8” allen head socket. I use ¼ adapters down to ¼ then to a 6” ¼” drive extension and then back up to a 3/8” drive into my wrench. This combination prevents the header and the case from getting scratched byh a fatter 3/8” drive extension. The ¼”drive up to 3/8”drive adapter is rare in most tool boxes but Craftsman has a small package of assorted adapters that contains this valuable tool. |
Birdmanrh
| | Posted on Thursday, July 20, 2006 - 11:21 am: |
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Davo, thanks!
You could have just said retard the timing 3degrees.
Seriously, thanks for taking the time to type all of that.(I hope you cut and pasted it)
I think Buell is looking at the timing as they practically pleaded me to take the bike back in to the dealer and asked the dealer to clear the dyno for my bike.
I fly to Austin for the weekend tomorrow, so I bet I will see my bike again Monday! Let's hope.  |
Davo
| | Posted on Thursday, July 20, 2006 - 07:00 pm: |
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Birdmanrh,
I had the timing process saved as a word file. It only took a second to cut and paste. Good luck and I am eager to hear about your dealership results. |
Birdmanrh
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 08:43 pm: |
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Well, we had a nice few days at an average of 112 degrees to test and and the verdict is in!
Fuel!
Seems that the ULY likes to have good fuel.
When we run anything below a top tier provider...
(I did type the rest, but somehow did not post it...)
...the bike pings and the eventually overheats (for real)
When a lower grade gasoline is used (did not try anything by 92 octane) the bike pings like crazy!
The issue seems to be that at best we have 20% ethanol in our fuel and even more in the non top tier companies.
So, with 92 Chevron and some Harley fuel conditioner we ran her hard and strong with no ping and no overheating.
(Message edited by BirdmanRH on July 25, 2006) |
Davo
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 09:43 pm: |
|
What did you use? |
