| Author | Message | ||
     Buelldyno_guy |
I will be installing a steering dampener next week. It is pretty standard to use one on race bikes at speeds above 100, so why not the "ULY"? On my test ride following the Micron installation I hit the rev limiter in 3rd and the front end shook as it got light at about 105. I used one at Bonneville on my S3 to stiffen it up at 130, and I will let you know it it makes it go away on my "ULY" regardless of the rear shock settings. ... Terry | ||
| Superchicken |
I have the LSL steering damper installed on the bike and have tried various settings to no avail. the bike swims a little all the time I understand that is a characteristic of the tires, but this is different, violent at times. | ||
| Davo |
Also FYI per Uly Manual: (Some Ammo for the shop visit) Tire Runout Specs. Tire radial- 0.060 in. Tire lateral- 0.080 in. Wheel Rim Runout Specs; Maximum lateral 0.040 in. Maximum radial 0.030 in. As for balancing:"The yellow circle on the sidewall is a balance mark and should be aligned 180 degrees from the balance mark(blue dot)inside rim. Maximum weight permissible to accomplish balance: 1.0 oz. total weight to the front wheel 2.0 oz. total weight to the rear wheel Wheels should be balanced to within 1/4 oz. at 60 mph. per manual the stock valve caps should be in place and stock valve stem length and cap combination is important. You probably have this information already but just in case I hope it helps you solve your problem. | ||
| Stevem123 |
Well I just installed the Avon Azaro's on mine. I did the change-out myself and balenced them the old-old school method. The wheels would not fit on my cager bubble balancer so I had to use the axles and a couple of jack-stands to do the slow spin method and weight opposite the heavy side. It takes a lot longer doing it that way but I find it somewhat satisfying after the scrub-in that it worked well. These tires are great so far and the bike is stable at all speeds. I even played with the rear preload settings throughout the full range and found that at max it wants to fall into the turns a little easier than I like but still quite stable. Just more sensitive to rider input. I also see why electroglider likes his at minimum preload because the bike acts more like a cruiser in the turns and rides much softer. All in all, I thik the wobbly issues some are having is a combination of tires and possibly suspension issues. There could be something wrong with the adjustments of the heim-links on the engine which effects the alignment of the rear wheel in relation to the trail of the front wheel. I'm one of the lucky ones that don't have the wobbly issues. I hope you all get the problem sorted out. BC Steve | ||
| Debueller |
Cygnus, My Uly is rock solid, at any speed. Maybe your ass isn't fat enough. I say if you ain't fat, you ain't all that. After all, fat is where where it is at. I'm a fat mo fo & I ride the sh*t out of mine. Just kiddin' Not really, I really am fat. Sorry, just havin' a good time. Jerry | ||
| Debueller |
Cygnus, Will be down in St. George this week. Going to Bar 10 Ranch. Leave me some info., if you know anything about it. See the thread in "storm fronts" (under northwest rides WA,OR,ID) I liked the thread on the Baja you did a short time ago, great job, that was hard core. (Message edited by debueller on May 14, 2006) | ||
| Bondo1007 |
OK, my Ulysses went from rock steady to this same high speed wobble. I did three updates at one time before it surfaced. (1,700 miles on the bike) First put on the stock Buell +4" screen, a set of axle sliders and reset the suspension. This wobble comes about 85-90 mph and is scary enough that my 40+ years of riding is real concerned that the Uly has a design defect. None of these changes should create this much instability. If the bike is this sensitive to suspension settings, what's going to happen on long trips changes in load factors, road conditions and wear/weather changes? Dial in the suspension as we travel down the highway? The wobble develops sooner if accelerating harder, i.e. redline third and power into fourth, the wobble is immediate, likely from the load differences in the front end. If in 4th or 5th and roll up the speed it will not develop until about 95+. This is a real wobble and not something anyone would try to power through. However, I discovered when pushing the wobble, if I kept my foot on the rear brake and used it the bike would slow and stabilize as quickly as it developed. Any thoughts on real fixes? Otherwise our Ulysses could become the Covair of the cycle world. | ||
| Stevenknapp |
Any thoughts on real fixes? Otherwise our Ulysses could become the Covair of the cycle world. Curious, you didn't mention what you changed in the suspension? DaveS set mine up per the book's "standard" chart for my empty weight (~240 w/ gear). The bags add maybe 30-40lbs, which isn't that severe of a change, I crank in a few turns of extra rear preload and all has been good. Even riding 2-up it was fine as well. From what I've read here, it seems having extra weight for how the bike is setup is OK. Having less weight than the bike is setup for can be bad. This equals what friends have said who have ridden the bike and weighed less than I by 50lbs or so. I was reading another thread on this forum on steering dampers. An anon poster was saying that they can cause more harm than good if not setup properly. Espically for high speed weave. | ||
| Guybones |
Mine is fine, totally steady, except for a 2.5 mi. stretch of Hwy. 12 between Sebastopol & Santa Rosa, slight swimming. I'm 6'-5", weigh in @ 275 geared up, suspension set per book. Is there some other variable that has been overlooked? I just don't see how one (or most) Uly's can be stable, and others be dangerous. | ||
| Stevem123 |
OK guys and gals, I've been riding Buells now for 5 years and I have played around with suspension settings and the like for almost as many years so here's what I know about alignment issues. The engine/transmission, rear swingarm, and rear wheel are one component. The chassis is another component consisting of the frame and front suspension components (forks, triple trees, neck, and of course the front wheel) and all it's sub components. Now these two major assemblies are held together by three rubber vibration isolaters. The front Isolator bolts to the front head of the engine and is just behind the steering neck on the frame. The rear isolators are at the rear of the engine near the swingarm pivots. Vibration isolators allow the engine to move around thus isolating the chassis from the engine vibrations. There are also heim-links attached between the chassis (frame) and the engine. These are critical in maintaining alignment of the rear wheel to the front wheel. From my fading memory, the factory manual states these are factory adjusted and it is not recommended to try adjusting these on your own. With this knowlege I would look to see if any of the locknuts on these heim-links are loose or if they seem to have moved for some reason. Maybe you might see something like some cleaner threads or loose attaching hardware. Another possibility would be a torn isolator. An out of balance front wheel can also cause wobbling at different speeds but I'm sure that has been checked already. Have the dealer find out how to get the alignment checked and let me know what you find out. Mine is fine so far so I can't help with actual data on that. BC Steve | ||
| Bondo1007 |
Curious, you didn't mention what you changed in the suspension? I am 6’4”, 225 lbs and my Ulysses riding buddy told me how much better his bike handled when he set it to the book. So we did that for mine too for my size and weight. It was setup by the dealer when picked up new and was a clearly soft when compared to the manual. If more preload is bad, then I hope removing it will fix it. I will let you know soon. | ||
| Opto |
I've posted something similar to this before regarding XB12S. This time I'll just state it clear so as not to be a hint but more a statement. I may be wrong because I've often been wrong  The idea of having "x" amount of suspension travel is to be able to use ALL of it. If you aren't bottoming out the suspension on the worst of bumps then you aren't using all of it, in particular I'm referring to the rear suspension. So if you aren't bottomming out the rear end then it's set too hard. And you miss out. Simple. On the XB12S setting the rear end too hard can have pretty bad consequences if things on the road turn to shite, the Uly may be a bit more forgiving. I'm just saying don't be afraid to run it soft, and I've noticed that the harder I ride the Uly it seems like the suspension stiffens up. | ||
| Thunderbox |
This may be coincidental but last night I changed my rear tire. Riding home that slight wiggle was completely gone. I don't know what was effected but straight as an arrow. Tire is a Perelli Diablo Strada. Felt really nice. On the way in I had the beast up to 100 mph (bags installed) and let her work for about 15 miles. Got into town and it runs like never before. Nice smoothest idle it has ever had. I am absolutely sure the bike runs best when it is good and hot. Like after the 100 MPH run. I work for the police so IZ have a certain amount of immunity for tickets. I don';t reccommend everyone does this. Is it possible we have been looking at the wrong end of the bike for the fix to this wobble thing. I started to wonder when I left the shop last night. Maybe we have been thinking in the box too much. (Message edited by Thunderbox on May 16, 2006) | ||
| Opto |
Tires will do it, that's good news Thunder, can't wait to get rid of my stock front tire (starting to stand the bike up braking hard into turns like the Dunlops did on the XB12S). Just want to add I've had my bike up to 120 for about 15 miles involving some corners, not just straight road, and had no headshakes, but I have had headshakes in 2nd and 3rd gear at WOT, but only minor because the front wheel was light and it skipped on a bump while leaned over a little or whatever, to me that is normal, the XB12S does that too, I've had other bikes scare me doing that, but Buells are tame in comparison. A mate had a ride on my Uly last weekend, took it up to 100, said the front end felt light like there wasn't enought weight on it at that speed, but also said it still felt safe. I agree, and think the new front tyre will help that feeling, which is all that it is , a feeling. If I need to do something drastic at 100 to avoid an obstacle I still have good faith in the bike. Same mate left behind a few jap and euro bikes on the twisties on his 1981 GSXR1100 - they didn't seem that impressed with his retro-rocket. When we swapped bikes it felt like I was riding a diesel locomotive (read - long wheel base). He was impressed with the accelleration of the Buell when overtaking cars...and didn't really want to get off it. | ||
| Superchicken |
Ok kids, I decided to bite the bullet and buy some new rubber even thought the 616's still have some life left in them. I decided that I was going to go all the way to the other extreme and put some high performance road tires in the bike and see what happens. well I am here to shout out loud that if you put a great set of street tires on the Ulysses it is amazing (I chose Dunlop qualifiers). The 616's did very well on my trip to the desert but on the street when I started to push the bike it became evident that they would not do. Most of my riding is in the canyons and to and fro work, so the street tires won. I will keep the 616's and put in the extra time to swap them out when I fell like hittin the dirt again. I just feel like I should share how much the ridability of the Uly changed when the tires did, especially after all the complaining I did. The front end is completely planted in the corners, I have 10 times the feedback from the road, my confidence with the bike is now to the point where I can throw the bike under me supermoto style and grind the freakin pegs off all at a pretty good clip!!!! it's Great!!. the stability of the bike on the freeway at even foolish speeds is remarkably better. I think someone said it right here on badweb, something like the 616's were a great idea that failed, especially for those of us that want to pretend our Uly is an overgrown CRF450 supermoto bike. I think I have finally made my Ulysses "MY Ulysses" | ||
| Chadhargis |
Yep...new tires make all the difference. Couldn't wait to get rid of the 616s. | ||
| Ulendo |
so - the BIG question from this is, how many of the 'poor test rides' we've all heard about have also been due to the 616's? superchicken - no idea about the qualifiers, but the scorpion sync's on the CityX are exactly what you're describing - lay the bike into a corner like a supermoto. takes a while to get used to after riding mostly metric bikes... | ||
| Stevem123 |
I'll chime in with a great report on the Avon Azaro's. I now have 800 miles on them with the last 150 in wet rainy weather. The bike is completly solid and yet the tires are barely scrubbed! I did a 500+ trip two-up and loaded while touring Yosemite and other parts around there. She wasn't babied at all and she held like a true champ in the corners. Yes the 616s are total crap in my book! BC Steve | ||
| Ntmmd8r |
I'm sure glad that there are some out there who have a shake free front end... Mine was squirrelly as hell today, on the way home from work, as it usually is at speed..70 mph +. It appears that there are a bunch more out there just like me...And before anyone says anything, the suspension settings are to specs as well as the tire pressures. So I spend 10k+ for a bike, get home with oil everywhere from a loose fitting from the swingarm, I have this very annoying unsafe feeling front end wobble, and now it sounds like I'm going to have to replace a new set of tires with another, to kill the wobble??? Come on...Where is the Erik Buell I've seen on the online videos. Don't get me wrong..I really like the bike, but that wobble really sucks. Mr. Buell???????? | ||
| Ka5ysy |
Ntmmd8r: What tires do you have? Are they still the stock 616's? | ||
| Jlnance |
he suspension settings are to specs Just for grins, drop your rear preload way down (lower the bike with the knob) and see what difference that makes. Also, try this. As you're going down the highway, put your left hand on the center of the bar brace, lean forward, and grip the throttle as lightly as possible. Does anything change? FWIW, I put new tires on the bike this weekend (not 616s) and it's like riding a different bike. The rear was already new so it was the front that made the difference. The problem was that it was cupped, but had plenty of tread. I didn't know anything about cupping, so I assumed it was still good because of the tread. Now I know. | ||
| Superchicken |
I don't think the 616's are complete junk. like I said they did very well off road | ||
| Jim_sb |
These "616's are junk" comments concern me. The world is not that black and white. I just got back from another 1000+ mile ride on my Uly. This particular ride was twisty oriented and the tires got a serious workout. They have excellent grip even at prodigious lean angles. I had my boots stuffed into the asphalt a few times and I ride with the balls of my feet on top of the pegs so there's not much boot hanging down... In fact when some others in my group (an FJR1300 and a Beemer for example) reported that they were sliding on the asphalt I was hooked up on the same stretch.... Hmm. Bad tires? Hooked up when the others weren't? As for 'wandering' on the rain grooves on Sunday we decided to expedite the trip home due to rain and high winds. While we were coming down the 99 in the rain at, uh, er, ahem, speeds that should not be published (speed limit was 70) and the bike was just peachy..... And when the 126 West was closed due to a serious accident instead of sitting there like hundreds of cars I took the Uly off-road into an orange grove, got on a 2 track trail from a tractor, bypassed the entire snafu (including riding through a small drainage ditch) and was back on my way in no time... How well will the other tires do then? Junk? I don't think so.......... Do I still have a decel wobble? Yes. It happens 100% of the time while decelerating in 5th gear at 45mph indicated with hands off the bars. In other gears it happens in similar circumstances at slower speeds. I'm not sure the tire has anything to do with it. BC Steve reported his Uly still does it with a new set of Avons. So is it the tire's fault? I question that. In fact, if I had an S3 and did a bunch of back road riding (occasionally dirt surfaces with sand, dirt or gravel on the road) I'd give the 616's a try. Honestly I have had multiple instances with the 616's where my tires were solidly hooked up in dirty corners and my riding buddies were all over the place... It is worth considering. If you guys bad-mouth the 616's enough I won't be able to buy them because Dunlop may pull the plug. They simply are not that bad. The issues I have had I suspect are not due to the tire. I may try a set of Syncs eventually just to see if there is much of a difference but at this point I'd be willing to run the 616's forever. Gawd, even among Buellists I'm swimming upstream. Sheesh. Okay, flame suit on boys. Go for it. I like good tires as much as anyone and I'm willing to go a different direction, but the only real complaint I have about the 616's is I was at the rear wear bars after 2700 miles.... Regards, Jim in Santa Barbara | ||
| Bosh |
Are cupped tires from over inflation or not enough twisties? Or ??? I've never had a wobble problem. I'm on my second 616 on front. Kinda weird. P.S. I'll be buying another set very soon. I like em!! (Message edited by bosh on May 23, 2006) | ||
| Jim_sb |
Every street bike I've ever owned has eventually cupped the front tire. Never bothered me a bit. I can't even say that I noticed a difference. Regards, Jim in SB | ||
| Debueller |
No flame here, Jim. I've ridden over 12K mi. on them (they don't wear very long!) I'm putting on my 4th rear and 3rd front next week. Last weekend my bro and I did a 1500 mi. trip through OR, ID, and WA. We rode up the Cline-Schmidt grade out of Hell's Canyon which was STEEP, muddy, and with HAIRY dropoffs it was to say the least it was fun. All this with over 60lbs of full tent camping gear loaded in the luggage. I would not want to do that section of road with a lesser dirt oriented tire. I am interested in the Sync's but I think they would be a compromise in terms of dirt and mud ability. On the pavement I don't hesitate to rail on it when I'm ready....the bike and tires always seem ready to GO. I feel a little "waggle" at times but I think it is due to the aggresive geomentery of the Uly's chassis. I usally feel it mostly when the luggage is loaded heavily. I to, am concerend that the 616's may not be offered forever and I will have to compromise with a more pavement oriented tire. Any one with 616's with very little wear on them, I would be interested in taking that garbage off your hands. : | ||
| Jim_sb |
Hey me too! Make me an offer I can't refuse....<g> Jim in SB | ||
| Stevenknapp |
Any one with 616's with very little wear on them, I would be interested in taking that garbage off your hands. I almost did that. But Jim talked me out of it. So I've got 4k on the rear. It's needing replacement soon. The front looks good. Not sure I'd replace em. Maybe do some road tires or some syncs (which were said to do just as well offroad). | ||
| Lowflyer |
With 1500 miles on my Scorpion Syncs, I still say they transformed the handling of my bike. They make no difference on dirt or gravel, but on pavement, they make a monster out of the Uly. I noticed the biggest difference on wet pavement. So, compared to the Pirellis, I think my 616s were junk. The Dunlops certainly get the job done and I don't begrudge anyone for being satisfied with them, but I wouldn't run them again if they were free. | ||
| M2nc |
The grass is not always greener on the other side I had 8500 miles on my front D616 and was about 500 miles away from my third rear tire when I ran over something on the road and blew the rear tire out in a turn at about 70 mph. To the credit of the tire, it never broke the bead on the rim and was able to pull off the road safely even though the rear was completely flat. Other notable praise to the D616 is in the rain. I was running from Indianapolis to Cincinnati dodging stupid cagers in the rain down I-74 at 85 to 90mph. The tires never slipped. When I got into Cincinnati, I noticed something in the headlight in front of the bike and it was water off the front tire. So much of it that it looked like a drinking fountain, very impressive. I had to switch tires though. Late in the trip, after playing in the mountains for about six hours, I popped back out onto the interstate in Virginia and it was 7:30pm and I had to go to work the next morning back home in eastern North Carolina. I put the Uly in the breeze and ran 85-90mph all the way home. Past Raleigh now in the dark I hit US-64 east. This is a lightly traveled section of divided highway. The speed limit was 70mph and I was running between 90-100mph most of the 30 miles of that road. In the dusk environment, with no worries of other cars, I tried everything to keep the bike from wobbling around. It wasn't so bad that I feared stability, but the bike just would not track straight. After the blow out, I bought Pirelli Diablo Stradas. I too wanted to go to the Syncs but was in a pinch and could not find D616s or Syncs locally, so with the mileage I put on the bike, the Stradas were my third choice. I could not believe the difference, not only did the bike quit wandering at speed, the bike was rock solid even at speeds over 110mph in 20 knot cross winds and me in my baggy leather jacket. I was shocked how much better the bike behaved. I also noticed that the bike tracked better even at slower speeds, or heeled over hard. I always thought like some who have commented here that the geometry of the bike made it a little touchy in the curves and hard to dial it in. I ran the D616 down the Dragon and at MBIII, and they stuck very well, but I had to really think about what I was doing to not over shoot the curves and cross the double-yellow. It wasn't until I put the Pirellis on that I realized that the D616s would affect the turn ins on curves. Now I wish I could say everything was peaches and cream with the Pirellis because they are not. Right after changing the tires out, I headed out with my daughter to the C3 junior ride. We had clothes, tent and sleeping bags, pillows, lanterns, tool kit, meds, etc., etc., etc., I had all three bags full, plus the tent poles and one sleeping bags strapped to the triple tail and super-structure of the trunk. I estimate that with bike, riders and gear we were close to 900#. The weather was mostly clear in the low eighties and we rode about 320 miles the first day on everything from interstate to State Park Twisties. At one point the guys stopped and we off loaded the girls and we took turns taking a corner while others took photographs of us coming by. The guys said, "Man, you could hear your tires through the curve!" They were not squealing, more the sound of tape being pulled off. I became concerned at the comment and inspected the tires when we got home. I notice that I had a cut in the rear tire. It goes about 2/3 of the way around the tire and it confused me on how it got there and more importantly, was the tire cut or separating. 1313 and a couple guys from work, one that use to drag race motorcycles looked the tire over and we all agree that the tire was not cut, but was tearing. Though the line in the tire is linear through the entire 2/3rd of the tire, each tread block is separated to the base on the front of the block, but intact at the back. Then again on the next tread block and again and again for most of the tire. It is off to the left side of the tire, so it happen as the bike was heeled over in a curve The local distributer will not honor the tire because it has too many miles on it, just over 500 miles. I rode the bike before the trip to break the tires in and then the two day trip. So here I am thinking to myself, I have about 60,000 miles on my three bikes with Dunlop OEM tires without a hitch, and this is my first non-Dunlop and it failed in less than 1000 miles. Has anyone ever had a tire separate or had problems with Pirellis? |
