| Author | Message | ||
     Chadhargis |
Before I go on a goose chase looking for the reason, I'll ask the braintrust here first. Saturday I was out on a ride and we stopped to wait on a slower rider. Being aircooled, I always shut off the bike while I wait. I shut it off in proper MSF fashion, using the engine cut off switch, then I turn off the ignition key. The slower rider showed up, and I turned the key on only to hear the exhaust servo opening and closing repeatedly. I didn't wait long, but it didn't appear it was going to stop. I cycled rapidly maybe 5 times before I flipped the engine cut off switch to the run position, then it stopped. I usually wait for the CEL to go off before I crank the bike, but I didn't on this occasion because I was in a hurry (I was leading and I needed to get moving). I glanced down a quarter mile later and the CEL was still lit. I pulled the clutch, turned off the key, turned it back on, waited for the CEL to go out, then thumbed the starter and everything was normal again. It never came back on and the exhaust servo never wigged out the rest of the day even after several shut down and restarts. What the heck caused it? Was it because the bike was hot? Is there something wrong? The bike didn't run differently, pulls strong, no detectable problems that I can tell. I need to hook up the diagnostic cable to my laptop and see if there is a stored code in the ECU, but I haven't done it yet. Don't know how to access the stored code info anyway, so that will be a learning curve. Guess I need to schlog through the service manual, but I was hoping someone could impart some knowledge on me before I start fumbling around. | ||
| Pbransonii |
Like a friend told me one time after the main breaker in my house flipped off for seemingly no reason: If it happens once it was an accident. If it happens twice, watch it very closely. If it happens three times, call a professional. Works with bikes, too, Chad. I wouldn't worry too much until it happens again. Paul | ||
| Aeholton |
Used to happen continuously with mine in the first 1000-1500 miles. Whenever I turned off the engine for a few minutes (like when I was refueling) and then started the bike before the cooling fan cycled off, a 1/2 mile or so down the road I would get a check engine light. Had the dealer (who has been pretty useless thus far) check it and they said it was an exhaust servo error. Anyway, it quit happening and hasn't done it in 5000 miles or so. I don't worry about it anymore. | ||
| Thunderbox |
It was a problem with the early models and I had to have my servo replaced as it happened all the time for me. I could tell something wasn't right because depending on where the servo stopped would determine where my power was best. (low or high speed) I had the dealer here check it and the next day the parts were in and the problem was gone. I guess that won't be a big problem when I put the Drummer on it. | ||
| Chadhargis |
Funny thing is that I could here it cycling open and closed. Once I switched on the engine cut off switch, it stopped. I'll keep and eye on it. I'll also check the cable adjustment. | ||
| Firemanjim |
Chad,there is an ongoing argument on the Triumph board i go to regarding the wisdom of the MSF recommendation to use the stop switch versus the ignition key.They liken it to shutting down a computer with the power switch or shutting it down with the shutdown button.Supposedly affects ecm, and is allegedly in the owners manual recommendations.I don't know this for a fact as I am second owner of the Sprint and have no manual to check out.Maybe your Uly is objecting to the manner of shut off.IMHO/YMMV---- | ||
| Chadhargis |
Being a network engineer, the computer analogy makes sense to me, but I'm not getting how cutting the engine with the engine cut off switch could hurt anything. This truly is the safest way to shut your motorcycle off, especially given that the Buell key is way up by the forks. You don't have to take your hands off the bars while the engine is running. I prefer to shut the bike down this way. Using a computer analogy. It's like shutting the computer off using the power button or unplugging it from the wall (let's pretend it's an old computer that doesn't have a "smart" power button). Makes no difference. Still bad for the operating system. By using the engine cut off switch, the ECU is still active and can see that the engine has been shut off. If you turn it off with the key, then the ECU goes down too (well, not completely...it still has power so it can run the fan and shut it off when the engine cools sufficiently). | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Notice that whether you shut it off with the engine cut off switch or the ignition key the rear cylinder fan comes on as it is supposed to. I almost always have killed the engine on the Electraglide with the keyed switch with no apparent ill affect in 42,000 miles. Either way the ECU goes through start up diagnostics no matter what method the bike was shut down the time before. | ||
| Chadhargis |
The part that is confusing me is the cycling of the servo. It's not the CEL light coming on. I've had that happen on other bikes and cars as well. But that servo cycling makes no sense. It's not the typical one cycle that you can induce by holding the throttle wide open when you turn on the key with the engine cut off in the run position (this is what the service manual says to do as a test). This is a rapid opening and closing of the exhaust valve without the engine running OR the engine cut off switch in the run position. Technically, it shouldn't operate with the cut off switch in the off position. | ||
| Stevenknapp |
Guys, these ECU's aren't that complex. If they need controlled shutdown they'll take care of it themselves by running off the unswitched battery lead. I wouldn't think or worry about that. Now if you were yanking the plug out from under the seat.... (Message edited by stevenknapp on January 30, 2006) | ||
| Buelldyno_guy |
I also had a servo Motor issue and it was covered by warranty. About the kill S/W and the Key S/W, an old timer told me to try and get use to using the Key S/W. The reason he gave was arcing of the contacts in the two switches. The key S/W is designed for a higher load and more life cycles, while the kill S/W is just that it's designed to stop the engine. He stated that it might never happen, but would you want to be on a trip and have the contacts in the kill S/W go bad leaving you with a open circuit when you get ready to start. ... Made sense to me and I try hard but still use the wrong one at times. ... Terry | ||
| Chadhargis |
Well...being an MSF instructor....I'm an engine cut off switch guy. Not saying the other ways are wrong, but I try to set good examples for my students and believe it is prudent to shut the bike off that way with a hand on the brake and a hand on the clutch with the motorcycle in first gear. Once the engine is off, you can let the clutch out and it will hold itself on a hill. Beats holding the brake while you fish for neutral. Letting out the clutch. Turning off the key with your left hand. Then having to snick it back down in first to keep the bike from rolling when you release the brake. Either that, or having to hold the rear brake while you reach over with your right hand. Engine cut off switch is just easier. Now...back to talking about the servo. | ||
| Stevenknapp |
Chad, if you have the service manual handy, look at what's all wired to the servo motor. If there is any sort of posistion sensor, maybe it's going south. Hence the ECU hunting around trying to learn posiston. | ||
| Lowflyer |
Buelldyno, I dunno which way is right, but I do what my MSF instructor told me to. Besides, the engine cutoff switch would be easier to fix on the side of the road if it did break, IMHO. I could see cracking the housing open, cutting the wires, twisting them together, wrap with e-tape or use a wire nut and close. Then you just use the key switch until you get a new ECOS which could be whenever you feel like it. Break the key switch and you'll need to replace it rather immediately. | ||
| Chadhargis |
I'll drag out the service manual. It's got a wonderful troubleshooting section. Maybe it mentions it there. I'll also try to get some time to hook up the laptop and read any stored codes. My little one has a cold, and I'll be spending some time entertaining her until she goes to bed...then I have to entertain the wife.  LOL! | ||
| Chadhargis |
Ok...got of my keester and hooked up the laptop to the bike. No current codes or historic codes shown. I ran diagnostics on everything that didn't require the bike to be running, and everything checked out. I also checked to see if the CEL light showed any historic codes. It didn't. No mention of the repeated cycling of the servo in the service manuals troubleshooting section. Must have been a fluke. I'm not going to worry about it. | ||
| Aeholton |
Chad - I have the cable/software set up for the laptop. However, I believe there is a problem with the software on reading historic codes. I was only able to read codes when the CEL was actually lit. It always said no historic codes. However, the digital technician the dealer uses showed the servo error codes. I never called the folks at technoresearch.com to discuss, because it quit getting the light. | ||
| Chadhargis |
Humm...that's good to know. I did wait the four seconds after the CEL light goes out to see if there was a stored code. The CEL light did not come back on, so I guess I'm good. I would like to know if there is a glitch in the software though. | ||
| Stevenknapp |
Chad, FWIW, I did look at the wiring diagram. The ECU commands the servo box, and gets a digital reply. This would be how it does diagnostics. The box itself has possition sensors and some smarts to provide the feedback. If this ever happened again, I'd put a DVM on those two wires and see what they are doing. It would tell you if the ECM is commanding the cycling. And also give you an idea what the box is reporting back as it's posistion. | ||
| Chadhargis |
If it happens again, looks like I've got a good excuse to buy a race ECM. (it doesn't use the servo) | ||
| Opto |
A good way to get the codes is short out 2 of the 4 pins (read the manual) in the diagnostic connector and the CEL will flash and provide the codes. I spent a lot of time working out how the exhaust servo works. It can open open and close very quickly. It does, as Stevenknapp suggested, provide position feedback to the ecm. However the ecm doesn't usually cycle the servo when you turn on the ignition key unless an error code has already been stored, then on next powerup, it will cycle the servo to verify correct operation (it is anticipating that someone has replaced it). On every power up (from memory) it will check power and ground to the servo, and maybe check for correct position info, but not cycle it. So maybe your servo faulted during the ride, then when you restarted the bike the ecm cycled it but didn't like the position feedback, and maybe your software can't read the stored codes. | ||
| Chadhargis |
Humm...good info. I know you can force the servo to cycle by holding the throttle wide open, setting the engine cut off switch to run, and turning on the key. This works as expected each time I try it. |
