| Author | Message | ||
     Chadhargis |
Went up to a local dealer today and got a test ride on a Uly. Wasn't a long ride, maybe 8 or 10 miles, but enough to be very impressed with the bike. First to debunk a few myths and confirm a few facts I've read about (I know bikes can be slightly different, and I'm reporting my findings on the one particular bike I rode) 1) The Fan Anyone who has a beef with the fan must have hearing like a German Shepard. The only time I heard the fan running was sitting at idle and when I shut off the bike after my, um, "spirited" ride. I was expecting it to sound like a hair dryer, but it didn't sound any louder than the fan in my refrigerator. I usually ride with earplugs, but I did not ride with them on my demo ride as I wanted to hear the infamous "fan noise" that has garnered so many complaints. To me, simply a non-issue. 2) The Heat I have no idea what sort of bikes the people who commented on the heat had been riding, but they must have had air-conditioning or something. I usually ride in a full Aerostich Roadcrafter or a Teknik leather jacket and Aerostich Darien pants. Today, I chose my Teknik jacket and just regular old Levis. I rode with my legs pressed tightly to the frame, and didn't notice anything being hot. Immediately after my test ride, I planted my palm against the frame on the right side and held it there. Very warm, yes, but not hot. My FJR would have left 1st degree burns on me if I'd have slapped my bare hand on the frame, but I don't typically ride with my bare skin exposed, so that's not an issue. 3) Vibration At idle, YES, the bike shakes like a wet dog, but once moving it smooths out remarkably well. I didn't feel much vibration in the pegs as has been reported and felt none in the bars. In fact, my first thoughts as I banged into the rev limiter (more on that later) in the first two gears was, "this thing is absolutely gutless", until I noticed my speed! Oh BOY! Hope no cops are around. The dang thing was so smooth I had no concept of my speed. It's smoother than my FJR or my Ducati. I was stunned. Is this REALLY a Harley based twin?!? 4) Wheelie Monster? I think not. The bike has plenty of go, but I grabbed a few handfulls of throttle in first gear and the front end did not come up, not even close. If I'd have TRIED to wheelie it, it would have, but it's nothing like my Ducati Monster that will wheelie coming out of a corner if you're too hamfisted with it. I did wheelie the bike over a rise in the road, and that was fun!!  5) Wind management I've read mixed reviews regarding the wind protection. Let me toss in my .02 worth as say they are EXCELLENT. NO, I mean absolutely NO wind buffetting. Even without earplugs this may be the quietest bike I've ridden. Granted, I didn't do any riding behind semi trucks or the like, but my head was in good clean air even up to 100mph. I was really very surprised. I think that contributed to my not realizing how fast I was going. 6) Clutch cable Damn! Every bike has a flaw, and the Uly is no exception. Who put the damn clutch cable DIRECTLY in front of the odometer/clock??? Good thing is as easy fix. A black zip tie run around the cross bar and the around the cable then slightly tightened will pull it the .5" needed to get it out of the way. Problem solved. 7) Seat Holy Christmas! Nice, nice, nice, nice. Why can't ALL motorcycle manfacturers make seats that are this comfortable. It's not hard, just make it nice and wide with plenty of padding. Even for my 220# •••, it was plenty thick and wide. My wife did not ride with me, but she sat on the back and commented that it was much wider than the one on my FJR. She liked the backrest too. 8) Clutch and Transmission To borrow a fine Jewish phrase, "It's like buttah!". Clutch effort was minimal and the transmission was really crisp and shifted easily. So easily that many times I didn't know if I'd actually got it into the next gear or not. Surely enough, I had. Just a light touch is all it takes. I wasn't used to the location of the shifter lever, and occasionally I missed it, but that's not a fault of the bike, just my clumsy size 13 feet. 9) The Rev Limiter This was something I hadn't read about anywhere, but it bears mentioning. My FJR rev-limiter abruptly cuts the fuel off hard. My Ducati has no limiter (thanks to Desmo valves and old tech carbs! ). The Uly rev limiter is gentle. The engine studders a bit to remind you, "Please shift kind sir", you snick up to the next gear and off you go. 10) Steering Lock Not quite sure if people who've complained about steering lock were riding dirtbikes before riding the Uly, but I found no issue with turning radius or steering lock. I turned the Uly around on a two lane road and never hit the steering lock. Simply applied a bit of rear brake, slipped the clutch, and weighted the outside peg. No issues at all. Then I rode in a circle once back at the dealer and tried to tighten it up sufficiently to hit the lock. Being that I was unfamiliar with the bike, I didn't lean it over real far, but I never hit the lock and was cutting some pretty tight circles. More than enough to meet my needs as I don't plan on any off road excursions. 11) Handling Let me preface by saying that the suspension was not properly set up for my weight. It needed more rebound damping and preload in the rear and front as well. Because of this, it was a bit soft and the rear tended to pogo a bit. I did noticed the bike standing a bit during trail braking, but that could have been because the rear was sagging too much. I pressed the bars and the bike turned in just fine. It actually handles much more neutral than I thought it would given it's wheelbase and geometry. I thought it might be very sensitive to steering inputs, but it really wasn't. Very stable, and didn't do anything I didn't want it to. It is tall though, and once it starts leaning, it does "fall in" a bit, but I'm used to that from having a BMW GS and a KLR in a previous life. Tall bikes just do that, and I actually kind of like it. I think I would actually like more triangular tires than the Dunlops. Maybe Pirelli Diablo or Diablo Stradas. 12) Engine braking I tested the lack of engine braking that has been mentioned as well as the engine "run on" after closing the throttle. I didn't notice either. Sure, the big flywheel doesn't toss you over the windscreen when you shut the throttle like some bikes do (my Ducati is especially bad about that), but it does slow down and does so smoothly. I did not notice any engine run on after closing the throttle. Overall, I'm very happy with the bike. Can't wait to get mine. I have to sell my FJR, and I'll be in business. | ||
| Aeholton |
After my first 2 full days of ownership (~600 miles) here are my observations: 1) Heat Very much hotter between the legs than my M2 Cyclone. However, not enough to spoil the ride (even here in FL). 2) Fan Non-issue...only hear it at traffic lights. 3) Front wheel Just starting to push it a little and the front wheel comes up quite nicely in first and second gear. 4) Vibration It's a Buell. They all shake at low rpms. Smoothes out nicely at speed. 5) Fun factor This thing is great! I love it!!! | ||
| Brotherbuell |
Chad, I have my bike all of 4 days now. I'd say your assessment is right on every point but the rev limiter. Since I own this one there is no way I'm getting near that until after the break in. The things that kept me awake the night before I picked it up were seat height, steering lock. Both have turned out to be non-issues. I don't ride with ear plugs and the fan is not a problem. It's actually comforting to know that it's doing its job. I have had quite a few bikes but I'd have to say this is the most satisfying out of the box that I have ever ridden. I can't wait to push it like it's begging to be pushed. Good luck with yours. | ||
| Stevem123 |
I'm glad to see more new Uly owners coming on this board! Congrats and continue enjoying! It only gets better from the start. I have to make myself behave now. 3.3K and I've used up most of the good tread on my rear. I just have flaps at the edges and the center is almost gone. I have done some spirited two-up with more weight than the Max GVWR allows so I suspect the first 40% of wear can be attributed to that alone. The rest I did on about 300 miles of hard twisties in the California coastal mountains. This bike is totally in it's groove in this territory. I can't wait to hit the Sierras next Summer! BC Steve | ||
| Chadhargis |
Don't worry about hitting the rev limiter. This is the BEST way to break in a bike: http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm Solid proof that the "break it in easy" was is the wrong way to do it. Just be sure you dump the oil at about 25 miles, again at 500, and again at 1000. Stay clear of synthetics until you have at least 1500 miles on it (I wait until 3000). Be sure to vary the RPMs, don't lug the motor, and use both accleration and engine braking. I broke in my FJR this way, and it's been the most trouble free bike I've ever owned. I babied my BMW GS per the manual and it burned oil, carboned up, and pinged badly. | ||
| Lowflyer |
I wish I'd seen this sooner. I have 700 mi on mine. I babied it (mostly) for the first 500 miles. I changed the oil at 500 and plan to again at 1000. I have always been suspect of the factory break-in method. It seems reasonable to me that an engine that goes through the prolonged break-in would suffer more damage than one that was broken in quickly with more frequent oil changes. One thing that really sticks in my mind is that the harder you are on the motor early, the more frequent you should change the oil. I think the factory chooses the slow break-in because it likely produces the most consistent results from bike to bike and owner to owner. The factory has to take the "safe" road to ensure consistent reliability. Trusting Joe Average to break in a motor the hard and fast way would result in a pile of brand new blown motors and a reliability stigma that would rival that of AMF Harleys. Cheers. | ||
| Thunderbox |
I broke mine in the Motoman way. I used 2 up riding to do a better job of loading up the engine and my bike has used no oil since the first 200 kms. It also seems to be a bit lighter in the front end when givin her than it was when new. | ||
| Chadhargis |
I think the "easy" break-in method is mostly due to lawyers. Can you imagine the law suits that would be filed if the manual said, "run it to the rev limiter in the first two gears and ride it hard". Given that it's a new bike and the rider is not familiar with it, there would be more than a few that would crash trying to break it in. Then can you imagine the marketing guys having heart attacks when customers were asked to bring the bike in three times in the first 1000 miles for an oil change. The competition would have a field day. | ||
| Wasions |
I'd heard of the hard break-in method some time ago but never heard from anyone on this board (or any other) who's done it. Keep us posted on the long-term results, Thunderbox. You're our official guinea pig.  Steve | ||
| Thunderbox |
I broke my 02 M2 in the same way. I went this summer on a 7500km (5000 Mile) trip and used a whole 250 ml (1/4 Qt) of oil for the entire trip. | ||
| Frankf |
So if I can paraphrase the correct break-in for a street bike, 1. Warm up motor completely.....how? idling or easy riding?? 2. First 20 miles, load the engine with full open throttle in 2, 3, 4th gears up to 65 MPH. Alternate between short burst of hard acceleration and engine deceleration. 3. Change oil. Use dino oil. 4. Next 180 miles, stay off freeway. Continue varying engine speeds, hard acceleration and engine deceleration. 5. Change oil again 6. Ride it like you stole it. 7. Change oil at 500 miles and then again at 1000 miles. Do I have this proceedure correct?? Does the filter get changed each time too? | ||
| Thunderbox |
I agree with that break in and thats what I do also. The only thing I am not sold on is changing the oil 3 times. Why bother? Isn't that why we have an oil filter? I don't change my oil during the break in but I do change it at 1000 miles as there may be some excess blowby prior to ring seal being perfect. There may be some excess contaminants in the oil by 1000 miles. (Message edited by thunderbox on October 03, 2005) | ||
| Frankf |
Here is his reason for doing the oil changes... Q: Why change the oil at 20 miles ?? Doesn't the oil pick up screen catch the aluminum bits ??? A: It's true that the screen stops the big pieces, but many areas of the engine aren't within the oil filtration system. The oil that is splashed around will circulate metal debris to the lubricated bearing surfaces. For example, transmission gears and their ball bearings are unprotected by the filtration system, and even the cam chain makes a perfect "conveyer belt" to bring metal debris up into the cylinder head !! A close examination of a new engine will reveal lots of aluminum deposits on steel parts. This aluminum coats and tightens up the clearances of the parts, which creates a loss of power. Most of the time I spend "blueprinting" an engine is actually inspecting every part and "de-aluminizing" them !! I prefer to remove the oil pan and clean the aluminum bits out of a new engine out that way, but a $20 oil change is an easy and inexpensive way to flush the initial particles that come loose in the first miles. | ||
| Thunderbox |
Buells don't have cam belts. Good luck taking the oil pan off. Are you sure your in the right forum????. Bearings in the engine are under pressured oil. This oil goes through the filter before reaching the bearings. Because this oil is under pressure aluminum pieces cant be injected onto the bearing surfaces. Also the Buell engine has a dry sump and doesn't fling oil around from the oil pan. The Buell also has a separate oil for the transmission and engine. Not shared like the Ricers. (Message edited by thunderbox on October 03, 2005) | ||
| Jim_sb |
Chad, with nearly 300 miles on my Uly now all I consider all the items in your note to be non-issues. Exceptions are the 'wheelie-monster' comment and the wind protection at high speed since, due to break-in restrictions, I haven't been able to verify those. As for break-in instructions, I have reservations about the link posted. To say that all manufacturers have similar honing patterns and tolerances and therefore conclude that similar break-in procedures are appropriate is an undocumented assumption. How can an air-cooled engine realistically have the same tolerances as a water cooled engine? The water cooled engine should, by design, be able to maintain tighter tolerances due to more uniform cooling and temperature control. I believe manufacturing quality is good enough these days that it is possible to do a hard or soft break-in and have the vehicle perform admirably. My old Ford Explorer came with break-in instructions to "just drive normally". It has been fabulous, 108k and climbing. Virtually zero maintenance. BMW insisted I should not do my first oil change for 15,000 miles. They run synthetic right from day zero. Am I to believe a guy who has torn down 20 racing engines over BMW's Engineering Department? Who has more money invested in this issue? Who has more at stake financially? BMW who must keep customers happy to stay in business or free advice off the Internet? Air cooled aircraft engines must be broken in "hard", because low power take-offs are difficult and arguably unsafe. If you have individual cylinder temperature probes wired to an engine analyzer you can see when the rings seat (often on the first flight with a new engine) as the individual cylinder temps drop dramatically (on the order of 40 or 50 deg. F.) in seconds. And they do recommend running the engine HARD, say at a sustained power of 75% for the first 5 - 10 hours of operation. I for one stick with the manufacturer's recommendations. This does not mean other methods won't work. Many items can contribute to dirty combustion chambers. One of those items is the fuel/air mixture. In most piston engined aircraft the pilot is provided with a mixture control to manually adjust mixture in all phases of flight. If he wants the most power he would be advised to run the engine somewhere between 100 - 200 deg. F. rich of peak EGT (exhaust gas temp). OTOH, a well balanced air cooled aircraft engine can also be set to run at 20 - 40 deg. F. Lean of peak EGT. Which scenario runs cooler? Which runs cleaner? Which is more efficient? Which scenario reduces internal combustion pressures? Which will make an engine last longer? With avgas now costing more than $5 per gallon at some airports you can bet that I know those answers. The one thing odd about Buell's recommendations for the Ulysses are the comments to "avoid lugging the engine", "avoid low rpm in high gear" and don't exceed 55mph. And of course they recommend shifting into 5th at 50mph. If one were to follow things to the letter there is a precious small range of allowable throttle and rpm's that allow you to ride the bike! I think if one is to err one must err on the side of caution and AVOID lugging the engine which, IMHO, can be far more detrimental than a few extra mph or rpm, especially when climbing a hill. I don't believe running the Uly harder during break-in is necessarily a problem, but I've chosen to follow the book as best I can. Regards, Jim in Santa Barbara | ||
| Thunderbox |
Jim, have you read the site at www.mototuneusa.com Look at the pictures of the pistons broken in his way and the factory way. This leaves little doubt as to which way is best. Unless of course he is outright lying. I ask why would he do that? But hey you have to live with the results so break it in anyway you feel comfy. The whole point is to seat the rings. What else really needs broken in? New engines are so well made the only parts that need to improve fit are the rings. (Message edited by thunderbox on October 03, 2005) | ||
| Frankf |
>Buells don't have cam belts. Good luck taking the >oil pan off. Are you sure your in the right >forum????. Don't shoot the messager. It was a quote from the site that believed in the hard break in method. Granted the Buell cam and tranny fluids are seperate from the motor oil, but his arguments make sense, and for the cost of an oil filter, you can be sure of not leaving anything behind. I wish I knew more about motor break in than looking a pictures of pistons. Anyone out there with more mechanical knowledge that could enlighten us about this subject. Both mototune and HD break in proceedures make sense, but which is better?? Why don't cars and truck have a break in proceedure? | ||
| Thunderbox |
I do not shoot messengers. LOL I have been in the business for over 32 years now and always thought break in was important. I still do but after reading the motoman article about 4 years ago I am convinced that his method makes better sense than the manufacturers. A quick look at his pistons will show his method causes a lot better ring seal than the other. Good ring seal will ensure combustion pressure is retained on the proper side of the piston making more power, better fuel economy, lower oil consumption and less combustion by products getting into the oil. This will make the oil last longer and lubricate better. I wish I could do the test myself but who has that kind of money. | ||
| Jim_sb |
Thunderbox, yes I read his site. At first glance it is very interesting. But I don't feel he provides enough data. To do this properly one would want to run identical engines in a test cell with instrumentation and detailed logs. I'm not saying he is wrong, but I will say the only parallel I know of (where the new owner is advised to run the engine hard immediately) is in air-cooled piston engine aircraft. It works for them and it certainly could work in a Buell. Personally I'd love to hear from someone like Aaron Wilson on this subject. Regards, Jim in Santa Barbara | ||
| Thunderbox |
All diesel engines are broke in the same way. Piston ring seal is even more important there where pressures are a lot higher. Motoman is not saying drive the ehck out of it right now. He says load the engine up and keep the combustion pressures high. This indicates to me on a Buell. Lots of full throttle running but no need to rev the poop out of the engine. Maintain say 3000 to 5000 rpm range. Lots of gas, then coast lots of gas then coast. I found with two up this was a little easier to do without having the Queens cowboys stopping me every 3 miles. (Message edited by thunderbox on October 03, 2005) | ||
| Cdallen |
Jim and Chad, after 1000 miles on mine I completely agree with your impression, with exception only to the wheelies and wind protection. I can now roll on at ~4k in first and the front end comes right up with no effort on my part... I am trying not to do this too much since I don't want to damage the front end on the return to earth but it sure is fun... As for the wind protection, I completely agree about the buffeting... the air flow is very clean but above 65 mph I am being pressed backwards by the wind pretty hard. I am ~6' and almost always rode with my previous bike's low stock shield in its low position so am not one looking for total enclosure, but I will definitely be checking into replacement options as they become available, at least for extended rides (gotta love that snap off design ). I have seen a few comments from the +4000 mile owners and really don't understand how they can be doing 80 and over on the freeway and still say the lack of wind protection is not a problem.  Otherwise though you're spot on. I am glad to hear some one else agree that the whole "steering lock" issue is a non-issue. This thing turns on a dime compared to my previous 62" wheelbase 747  although, like you, I am not looking to go hauling around the woods anytime soon. | ||
| Lowflyer |
I agree, wheelies are no problem on the Uly. Mine just turned 1000 as well. I am in the non-buffetting camp as well, but I am 5'10" and the wind just hits me at the very top of my chest no matter how fast I am going. I tend to ride in a relaxed, forward leaning semi-slouched position. I have no problem at all with the wind even while maintaining 80+ on the freeway.  | ||
| Court |
I for one stick with the manufacturer's recommendations. This does not mean other methods won't work. Precisely my take. | ||
| Thunderbox |
So Court I guess you use H-D oil and air filters all the time also and don't forget tires from H-D too. Just pullin your pud bud. | ||
| Jim_sb |
Thunderbox, Aaron Wilson of Nallin Racing sent me a link to an article written by Ron Dickey of Axtell about ring micro-welding: http://www.axtellsales.com/RonsDocs/Ring%20Seal.pdf I'll stick with the factory procedure. Regards, Jim in Santa Barbara | ||
| Thunderbox |
Good article but a lot of variables from a stock Buell engine. Plus the engine was pullin 123HP on the dyno. Not the same senario as the Uly 84 hp or so engine. You can imagine what the pressures were like in the cylinders on that bike. They must be around 55% more than our Ulys. That being the case I will remember this when I increase my Hp 55%. | ||
| Court |
Actually....for the last 20 years, I confess I have run stock Harley-Davidson oil. Bear in mind, I am not running Frank Ammerman ( I run K&N air filters and maintain it's still the most HP per $$ you can snare. My S-2 is currently in the hands of Aaron Wilson, half a continent away, and wehn it comes home I'll run whatever he says to. . . he's good. . . VERY GOOD. . . at this stuff. I've always run Dunlops tires, but (insert disclaimer) it's due in large part to the fact they Dunlop has always sent them to me. Nice to have kids from Topeka running Dunlops motorcycle division, eh? I have, and this is predicated on the type of motors I run and riding I do, that ANY oil changed regularly will yield indistinguishable results for my purposes. Don't get me wrong, I am mildly entertained and enjoy reading the synthetic vs. dino articles. My F-250, going on 160,000, has had Mobil 1 since day one and had it changed every 3,000 miles. If I were Brankin (1313) and tossing a 106,000 S-2 around I'd have to look at the world differently. Yeah....I'm a wuss. Court Correction: Frank Ammerman's 130 RWHP 88" street Buell was built in Shreveport, Lousianna long before Aaron Wilson bought-into NRHS. Blake (Message edited by blake on January 16, 2006) | ||
| Frankf |
What exactly is a heat cycle break-in?? | ||
| Jim_sb |
Frankf, it's my understanding that it is a gentle ramping up of heat in the engine over multiple cycles. Meaning don't start the bike and go ride 500 miles all at once. Do it in multiple phases. and don't ride it hard. Avoid high power (and the resultant high heat) which can cause micro-welding of the rings. Again, I'm not saying poor results will occur if the engine is broken in "hard". Just presenting an alternative viewpoint. If you follow the factory recommendations you'll be doing the gentle heat cycle type break-in. You pay your money, you get to make your choices. This could explain though why some bikes dyno right where they're supposed to and others don't. Remember the CW article where they said their Uly dyno'd around 82 or 84 rwhp? Makes one wonder how it was broken in. Regards, Jim in Santa Barbara | ||
| Thunderbox |
83 or 84 Hp rear wheel on a Uly is just about what the factory says they should have. | ||
| Jim_sb |
Thunderbox, Buell's web site says 103hp (crank) at 6800rpm. 83 rwhp would be about a 20% drop. That is unusually large. Here is what Steve_A of CW had to say on this topic:
BTW the above quote can be found here: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/142838/129677.html?1122229100 It seems that we have conflicting info. yet again. I have posted my source, do you have any more info.? I hope Steve_A is correct. Regards, Jim in Santa Barbara | ||
| Thunderbox |
Hey Jim it really doesn't matter who is correct. That won't give us a single HP extra at the rear wheels. Whats there is there. I had read somewhere and probably on Bad Weather bikers dyno charts that stock xb12s had about 83 RWHP but hey mine won't go any faster if someone else can prove it has 93. | ||
| Jim_sb |
Amen, Thunderbox. It's nice to know, but doesn't change a thing. I'm one of those guys who will not tear apart a perfectly good engine just to harness a few more ponies. OTOH, if I ever have cylinder problems, that's a whole new ballgame. Right now I'm just trying to get my break-in completed so I can see what she'll do. Regards, Jim in Santa Barbara | ||
| Thunderbox |
Hey you enjoy that machine buddy. Keep the rubber side down too. Getting a bit cold here now specially in the mornings below freezing. See yuh |
