| Author | Message | ||
     Rokoneer |
In my travels today I heard a radio ad for a big Buell event that was bring held at the Utica NY H-D/Buell dealer this upcoming weekend. As I was only about 30 minutes away I decided to take a small detour and stop in to see what the place was like and maybe get a chance to see and sit on the '06 models. Beautiful place, three years old, and just walking in the door I caught a glimpse of a bunch of Buells spread all over the place. I decided to do a count and found there were 6 Firebolts, 8 Lightnings, 2 City X, and 3 Blasts all on the main sales floor. There were no Uly's or Longs to be seen but I still found it to be pretty amazing that there were almost 20 Buells in a dealer that is not in a particularly heavily populated area. At the time I was the only non employee in the joint and I was looking over a City X as I had never seen one in person before. The Sales Manager pokes her head out of her office and asks me if there's anything she can do for me. Me: "Do you have any '06 Buells I can take a look at? I'd really like to see a Ulysses." Her: "A what?" Me: "An '06 Buell Ulysses, the XB12X." Her: "A Ulysses? Whats that?" Me: " Oh, it's Buells new Adventure bike, I was hoping that you might have one I could take a look at." Her: "Oh that thing! No we don't have one. I believe they are having production problems with those. We ordered one and they said we could get it in anywhere from two weeks to three months. Buell is not very good about delivering when they say they will." Me: "How about one of the new Long's?" Her: "Yeah, we do have one of those. It's on the floor somewhere. I saw it yesterday. It's easy to find because it has those bright red wheels. I'll have Bob (one of her salesman) show it to you." Me: "Thanks. Do you have any Buell apparel I could take a look at? I'd like top buy a hat or shirt." Her: "Harley has pretty much given up on Buell apparel. There is really nothing available for me to even order." Remember that this is the Sales Manager who is telling me lies, presuming that I do not know any better. How sad........ She was nice enough to give me one of those Buell 'Own the Corners' promo hats from early this year for free. She had a big box of them in her office. Bob the salesman shows up and we go searching for the '06 Long. We don't find it. He asks the Sales Manager if it happened to sell 'last night' and she says no and that maybe it's out back. Bob and I proceed to walk through the service area and in to a back storage room that is pretty much packed with bikes and there stuck in a row on the back wall sits the '06 Long, easily identifiable by the red/orange wheels. Bob says I can roll it out from the row and sit on it and look it over, which I do. Pretending not to know any better I ask him what changes there are from the '05 and he comes up with "The wheelbase is 2" longer and they have different belt guards." I did ask why the bike was in the back room if it had been on the showroom floor the day before and he wasn't sure why it had been moved. I tell Bob I'm really surprised at how many Buells are on the floor and he replies that there are "way too many", but not in a salemans 'so you should buy one' tone, but in a 'they're a waste of space' tone. Really odd. I had not let on to anyone that I owned a Buell so you'd have thought, hell make that hoped, that they'd treat me like a potential customer. But I really got the feeling that there was a fair amount of resentment towards even having to deal with Buells at all. What a bummer. Bob also mentioned that the Buells and the V-Rod were very simlilar in that there are good marlets 'out west' for both, but not much of a market for either here. I asked Bob if the dealership was planning on keeping the Buell line since I had heard that some dealers were dropping it, and he replied " I guess we're keeping them...." And this is from a place having a Buell specific event the NEXT DAY! WTF??? It really bums me out to be so passionate about a bike and to find that some dealers just don't have any interest in representing the marque at all. Oh yeah about that '06 Long.....Very nice machine to sit on. Like the look of the new swingarm but not the belt guards and did NOT care personally for the red/orange rims at all. They really reminded me of the mid 80's Honda's that had red rims. Just a very dated look to me. | ||
| Xb12burner |
You got one of those hats free? I'm going to have to ride about 800 miles out of my way to go up there and get one now. I can't get one anywhere, except ebay where they're selling for over $20. That kind of disinterest is pretty common in most H-D shops. From most of their attitudes you'd half think that the bike might as well be a ricer bike. Thats how they usually act anyway. H-D shop employee: "Buueellll? what's that, oh those rice bikes over in the corner with the tarp over them, yeah we're getting rid of them" That's what I'm hearing more and more every time I travel to a new dealer. | ||
| Dave |
In light of similar situations and reports that H-D and Buell are dropping dead-wood dealerships, it begs the question: “Is it better to have a local apathetic, ignorant, and almost disdainful dealership like that carrying Buells or having a mediocre one 2-3 hours away? DAve (Message edited by dave on August 26, 2005) | ||
| Xb12burner |
Looks like that's all the choices most of us have. That or a really awesome, sympathetic and knowledgable one 8-10 hours away. | ||
| Cdallen |
I was up there over the summer and also was amazed at how many they had for that area. But after sitting on about 5 of the different bikes I still had absolutely no interest from the sales staff. Weird how they have so many on the floor. | ||
| Jim_sb |
Dave, having a place where you have a chance to get service and you can order parts is worthwhile. I don't need a knowledgeable salesperson. I do need parts, don't always like ordering stuff off the Internet. Regards, Jim in Santa Barbara | ||
| Dave |
Agreed Jim. Lack of a dealer network is unacceptable. It's an ax that needs ground. No Buell dealership in Alabama's largest city! Only 2 in the state! 1 is not giving demo rides on the Uly unless you put money down. hahahahaha DAve (Message edited by dave on August 30, 2005) | ||
| Outrider |
Yeah, no kidding. From what I understand Hal's is still waiting for their first Uly much to the dismay of their sales force. Guess being close to the factory and collaborating with the racing effort doesn't count when it comes time for distribution. Just being sarcastic as I am sick and tired of calling Hal's and hearing them complain about not having one to show much less a few to go. | ||
| Rokoneer |
Interestingly enough, as an addendum to my initial post, I received a IM through this very board from the manager of Utica H-D/Buell. Upon looking at his profile I saw that he had joined BadWeb that day and had zero posts. Obviously someone from BadWeb (Court?) let him know that there was a critical post about 'his' dealership and he was either urged to try and address it, or perhaps he did so under his own motivation. He apologized for the way I was treated and admitted that it was pretty obvious that they had in no way convinced me to want to be a customer there. He then offered to let me have the initial test ride on the first Uly that they get in and asked me to please contact him personally regarding my visit, and share my thoughts on what they can and could have done to 'make them a better H-D and Buell dealer'. I replied that I'd really prefer to meet in person and he invited me to stop in anytime and he'd make meeting with me a priority. I'm looking forward to the meeting and can't help but be impressed with turn of events. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Excellent! Glad to hear dealers doing the right thing moving forward. What a dealer does the first time in is important, how they respond to a screwup is even MORE important. Sounds like a dealer reacting well. | ||
| Uselyssxb12x |
Rokoneer I had a similar experience at the only HD dealership in my city. A few weeks after the launch of the Uly, I made my first trip into C.C.HD to get some info on the bike, I did'nt expect them to have one since only a few were showing up across the US at this time (according to this site). I look around, find the current stock of Buells, look some more, no one talks to me,even though the dealership is not that busy (week day), salesmen see me, but do not come over. I do this TWICE more over the next couple of weeks, same response. I finally on the third trip to the dealership run down a salesman and ask about the Uly. He just looks at me for a few seconds, asks "the what?", I tell him again, then he says he is not sure.  I leave as he is not at all interested in the Uly or me. A week later I go back (can you tell I'm interested  ). I look at the Buells they have again, no Uly, have to track down a salesman (different one) to find out if they are going to get one. This salesman knows what I'm talking about, but is not sure when the Uly will be here, but takes my name and number, will let me know when the bike comes in. Couple a weeks later I go by the dealership, look around for the Buells, (they moved them), no Uly, but they have a Lightning Long (VERY nice and I fit on it  ). Third different sales guy comes up to me and I ask if they have the Uly in yet. He says they had one in for several days and then sold. I asked this guy when they would get another, he went to ask and came back with "no one knows." I am not a Harley guy, never been one, but I liked the XB Buells. My mind was made up on a Triumph Tiger, but when the XB12X came out, I thought, great suspension components, easy to work on engine, good looks (subjective I know), many dealerships around the state (Tx) and country, etc., but ... I want to like Buell and their dealers, but what kind of support can I expect if this is any indication? Sorry for the rant. I Really want one of these, but I do'nt want to have to go to San Antonio, Austin, Houston, etc. for service or parts.  | ||
| Rokoneer |
Uselyssxb12x, "I am not a Harley guy, never been one, but I liked the XB Buells." Amen Brother! I've owned Harley stock since '88 and have never been a Harley guy either. Always found Buells interesting, but only the XB platform got me to want one. It is one thing to read on BadWeb about the poor attitude some Buell dealers have, but quite the reality check to experience it. One other thing the salesman said to me as I was sitting on the '06 Long, "You look more like a V-Rod guy than a Buell guy..." Ouch..... | ||
| Uselyssxb12x |
I'm with ya Rokoneer.  After the remark about being a V-Rod guy, I would'nt blame you if you NEVER went back there!  | ||
| Typeone |
"You look more like a V-Rod guy than a Buell guy..." damn, that is just poor, but it makes sense, right? the H-D crowd is only worried about image! | ||
| Broodwich |
I'm still somewhat of an outsider and it seems to me that the typical HD dealership is the key obstacle in the way of Buells success. With so many stories like these the HD dealership could ultimately be the basis for Buells demise. It may sound harsh but remember I'm just skirting around on the outside of the Buell owners community if you will trying to decide if I want to drink the Kool-Aid and I am already aware of the shadow that the mothership seems to cast on the Buell brand. | ||
| Jim_sb |
Gentlemen, It's a motorcycle fer cryin' out loud. It's not a marriage. Sure, Buell could benefit from some better dealerships but the most important aspect is the BIKE. I've owned my S2 for 4 years, I've done all the maintenance (okay, I had an indy Harley mechanic put an idle mixture adjustment knob on the Edelbrock Qwiksilver II carb). It's not that hard, you save money and you learn about your bike. If the salesman doesn't know much about your bike who cares? You know, that's what matters. And I *know* you *know* because you're *here*. I've also owned a Suzuki GS500E and a Sportster. I never spent much time hanging out at the dealership. It's not a social experience for me. If you *like* the bike, buy it. Don't get me wrong, better dealers would be nice, but higher on the list of items is 1) Do I like the bike? 2) Is it a well made bike? 3) Does the bike do the things I want it to do? 4) Is the bike fun? 5) Does the bike look good? Etc. Enjoy. Jim in Santa Barbara | ||
| Court |
>>>I want to like Buell and their dealers, but what kind of support can I expect if this is any indication? Lots. Write me. | ||
| Regkittrelle |
Santa Barbara Jim... Excellent point, and a needed perspective. There's this tendency to want to "feel the love" at a Buell dealer. To me that smacks of issues with a buyer that are better addressed on a couch. Dealerships are (statement of obvious alert!) businesses. The purchase of a motorcycle is a business. It is a quid pro quo interaction that involves a significant amount of money being turned over in exchange for a product decreed to have a certain value. Once a buyer recognizes this, this business deal becomes a much more rewarding, and less emotional, event. If a given Buell dealer chooses to hire and support salespeople who are clueless... use the situation to your advantage. It is a very simple process that most buyers ignore. In essence, be everything the salesperson isn't. That would be.. knowledgable. If you walk into a dealership, 1) knowing the product 2) with financing arranged 3) with insurance pending ...you are in the position of strength. State your conditions for a sale; either they meet them or they don't.(It also helps to set a one hour time limit for the deal). If they don't, then walk. There are always other dealers and other motorcycles. If this ridiculously simple plan were used by buyers the "love" would magically appear at dealerships who desired to stay in business. Unfortunately, here's how the scenario usually pans out.... After having an emotional fire lit by an article or a board posting, we spend a restless night thinking, 1) how cool it would be to own the objet d'art 2) how we might convince the wife of the dire necessity of ownership 3) how we might afford it. After spending a distracted morning at work, we spend a long lunch hour at a marginal dealer, hoping to be annointed with "love." A mere crumb of which suffices. Then, having our unreasonable expectations dashed by a nimrod oblivious to our pain and suffering, we tearfully and copiously complain about the dealer to everyone except the correct person: the owner of the dealership. Court (bless him), me or ANY third party is the wrong person to act as your agent. In fact, one of the least effective "agents" is the Buell company itself as the odds are the offending dealer is used to blowin' them off. Think about this: What wallet is being most effected by a stupid salesman? The owner... not the sales manager, not the general manager, not the MotorClothes manager--the owner. Anything the owner might hear from other than you is hearsay... worthless.It ALWAYS comes back to the wallet. Fact: More often than not the owner NEVER hears of these negative experiences. Why should a Sales Manager tell him how he screwed up? Not a lot of percentage (an SM's holy grail) in doing that. If you're really interested in rectifying the situation, send a registered letter directly to the owner. Complaining herein about a bad business deal does little to change anything. The primary reason behind this is that there's a tendency---by all of us---to discount internet whining, to just waht it is, whining. Don't discharge your righteous anger here; put it where it will do the most good: in the owner's wallet. If you'll approach your motorcycle purchase in the same way as it's being sold... as a business, you'll amaze yourself at the results. hey, who loves ya baby? | ||
| Court |
>>>Anything the owner might hear from other than you is hearsay Accurate statement. See the pointers I shared here, about a year ago. for handling your communications with the dealer principal. Reg or I as your agent? Don't even thing about it. . . I can hear it now...."but sir, when I came here I at LEAST had a motorcycle. A white hair guy and some chubby giggly guy left on it to give it a "road test" and I haven't seen them since" "About how long ago was this?" "Two months"  | ||
| Broodwich |
Are we to the point where as consumers poor customer service has become acceptable? It certainly seems to have become the norm. (Message edited by broodwich on September 01, 2005) | ||
| Buelluk |
I felt the love at Danbury HD ! 1)They knew what the Ulysses was ! 2)They had one on the floor for me to sit on at least - -it was already sold ! - BTW I believe it went to a V-Strom owner - kudos to Erik 3) They had another four on order from the factory - mine is number 3 or 4 4) They have sorted out a Barricade Orange one for me! 5) The clincher - they did'nt look at me as if I had a communicable disease ( oh no - it's one of those Buell people ) - they actually wanted my XB9S - they stated that they need all the bikes they can get - they gave me a fair price for it - after looking at it for all of 20 seconds. I can see what Reg is saying about some people needing to feel the love , and I am realistic enough to know these guys are running a business, but I think in the case of some dealers ( not Danbury ), please don't put the badge up on the wall if you can't be bothered to learn about or sell the product ! | ||
| Uselyssxb12x |
Jim sb I realize it is not a marriage, if it was I would'nt have any bikes! I do my own work/maint. on all my bikes and cars. Reg I realize dealerships are a buisness, having worked for one for ~5 years in the mid to late 80s. I worked in the sales dept., service dept., and was parts mgr. I know product knowledge, courtesy, goes a long way to the customer. I also know that many people who come into a m/c dealership already know a great deal about the product (model), after all this is a non essential item (luxury) that is not needed by 95% of the customers. It is for FUN! I did'nt mean to sound like a whiner on my first few posts, but a good dealership to have close by would be nice. | ||
| Regkittrelle |
Broodwich... I refuse to accept poor service. I'm fairly militant about this, complaining on a regular basis at retails outlets, restaurants etc. If I'm giving someone money I had better get my money's worth back in return. I don't want love, free cookies, a silly hat, ot a cheap souvenir made in China from my dealer (ref: the very cheap "Leatherman" knockoff Buell offered a coule of years ago). I want respect. And good on Danbury! I staged a couple of BTXs for them years ago... always liked the people. And just to confuse the issue... I really enjoy the company of a good dealership. I like to feel welcome, and respected. And the ironic part about this is (as every good salesperson knows)get me in that warm & fuzzy environment and I forget all about it being a business deal. That W&F environment, however, had better include product knowlege. Otherwise,it's a warm & stupid environment | ||
| Uselyssxb12x |
What Reg said, EXACTLY.  That is why he is PAID to write, and I am just a whining dork.  | ||
| Regkittrelle |
Use... Never meant to imply that you were whining. Actually we all have done/said the same thing, relating an experience at a dealership can be a good thing... as long as it's fair. I long ago gave up hope for the majority of the Buell dealers. Frankly, there is little or no financial incentive to sell Buells. This is a very short-sighted view, but understandable. Long term HDI has got to figure out how to attract a younger demographic. Buell was to be that solution. In particular, the Blast was to be the savior... yeah. Here's something to watch: Harley has begun to strike demographic gold with their drag racing program. Drag racing attracts huge crowds in many parts of the country (not here, tho) and it's a younger crowd. And the introduction of "The Destroyer" has been a very big success. If this continues to succeed, the need for a Buell becomes more than a little bit irrelevant as it has NOT succeeded in bringing the young'uns to the counter (Although, things are better than they have been. The Ulysses is, by far, the best product that Buell has ever produced. It should also be a sales success. I don't believe, however, that it will attract that much of a younger crowd. | ||
| Jim_sb |
Putting things differently, the nearest official Buell dealership is about 50 miles from my house. That distance means I won't be stopping by just to say hello. But if I *need* to get a part and if they *have* the part in stock, it might be worth a trip. My *experience* has been that any Buell specific parts that I need are rarely in stock. Therefore I may as well order them off the Internet, save some money and have them shipped directly to my house. C'est la vie. I still wouldn't let it slow me down 1 minute from buying any Buell. I also have a DRZ400S dirt bike. It has never been to the dealership for service and they're nice guys and they're right in town. I just figure I can do regular maintenance in less time than it takes to drop the bike off and pick it up. It's really not a big deal. Poor customer service? That would be if they worked on my bike and screwed it up, used the wrong parts, etc. Oh, and I've heard stories of that happening at *every* type of dealership in town. It's not brand specific. As Reg said Buells haven't been profitable for many of the dealerships and as a result dealers probably haven't been rushing to invest resources into the product. Plus the Harley faithful are in many ways polar opposites of the Buellin' crowd. It doesn't have to be that way but it has been one of the unofficial ways in which HD has maintained their market position. Or perhaps you haven't noticed HD riders giving you the one fingered salute as you ride your Buell down the road? (I got the same treatment from the sportbike crowd when I had my Sportster).  It's all good. I just laugh and ride on! I think my S2 has been a wonderful bike. I'm going to try and sell it and buy a Uly with the proceeds because I'm one of those riders who likes to take the road less traveled. Regards, Jim in Santa Barbara | ||
| Uselyssxb12x |
Reg... I agree that HDI needs to get a younger demographic, not sure exactly how, though Buell has had to have some impact, even if small. I too believe the Ulysses will be Buell's number 1 seller, followed by the Lightning Long. I feel the Lightning Long looks "right" (not so stubby...my opinion) and is roomier (is that a word?). I hope Buell has to ramp up production with the success of these models, and in turn HD dealers will view Buell as a compliment and profitable addition to their buisnesses. It can only help all of us. | ||
| Regkittrelle |
I'm a "Harley faithful," a "Buell faithful" and a "Ducati faithful." I'm always amused by how differently I'm treated depending upon what I'm riding, and wearing. Recently I saw a Buell friend heading towards me; I was on my Road Glide. As he got closer.. ready to ignore me...I flipped him off (he didn't know I had a Harley). Instantly pissed, he turned and came after me... he's a big guy. I pulled over, took off the helmet and waited for the explosion. When he saw who I was was I got this "What the..?" perplexed look. some riders just can't understand how someone can enjoy all types of motorcycles | ||
| José_quiñones |
Ironically, "Buell's" are also drag racing in front of the same crowds and beating those "Harleys" once in a while too. Too bad the real Buell does not (or is not allowed to)capitalize on this in their marketing like HD is. The "dirtbike" survey HD is currently sending to people is part of an attempt to respond to the under 25 market. I think getting into that market (including a factory off road racing team) would be a great way to reach younger riders. They should have picked up the remains of Cannondale when they had the chance. Could they just buy up/partner with ATK like Polaris did with KTM? (Message edited by josé_quiñones on September 01, 2005) (Message edited by josé_quiñones on September 01, 2005) | ||
| Rubberdown |
Reg, "I flipped him off"; WTF? Maybe I missed something but you flipped him off because he did not wave? I hope I missed something because that's just wrong. Just wondering. |
