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     Chainsaw |
A durable new Goodyear Hibrex 135-tooth final drive belt with Flexten Plus technology requires no scheduled service or replacement.  Hey Dave, is it to early to ask you how much to convert on '03 belt system to an 06?  | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Chellem |
buell.com is currently unavailable - they must be uploading the changes now!! | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Oldroadtoad |
Where to begin? 4.4 gallon tank? Still too small. Did not some one that raced increase their fuel capacity approximately the same as this new bike, via welding shut an air intake vent in the frame-tank? This sounds as if this is what Buell has done. Again, still too small. Single rim mounted disc brake? Why? Doubles of decent size (300 mm to 320 mm)look better (read: "balanced') and stop better. I really do not ride on dirt, even with my DR650, but come now, why submit your brake (not brakes, LOL!) to a beating in the dirt, when they could be out of harms way and you would have brakes instead of a brake, I do not care this much about "unsprung" weight. "Sigh"... but Mr. Buell does, and this is his bike, not mine. He designs his bikes for his needs, not mine. He is an engineer, and I am a toad. But he wants me to spend my money on this bike? The lack of nice brakes (not "brake"  up front is not a deal breaker, but rather an inconvenience. I think it is cheapo, but I have a front brake "fetish", LOL! No centre stand? Not a deal breaker, but it would be nice to have one, especially at this MSRP. At the MSRP of $11,495, I expect to see the features I want in a bike. If not all of them, then most of them. I am a prospective buyer, and I can afford a Ulysses. That the bike was going to be a bit of a let-down when finally revealed is/was unavoidable. This bike looks very nice, and the cool factor is up there, but the brakes and fuel capacity leave much to be desired. I can (and currently do) live with a bike that has a single disc brake up front (DR650), but it did not cost nearly as much as this other wise gorgeous Buell. I replaced the tiny tank with a 4.9 gallon (the largest I could find in these United States) item from IMS. I can not do that with the Buell. It should have come from the factory with a MUCH bigger fuel tank. It may be that this is as big as the tank can get, with out making it look really odd. No bike can have everything I want in bike. But for 11.5 grand, this bike needs to be close to what I want. Or should I say, closer? I will still reserve final judgment when I actually see one in person. Until then, I shall have to avoid my Ducati dealer, as I think the MultiStrada is a nicer bike than this new Buell. Oh, and for those that think the Duc will cost more to maintain, I should like to point out that my Roadking Classic has taught me other wise. An air-cooled two-valve Ducati is no more expensive to maintain than an air-cooled TC88, and per my dealers maintenance shop, a Buell is just as expensive to maintain, if not more so, than a new MultiStrada. Why? I have no idea. And no thank you, I do not wish to learn how to maintain a bike my self. I am confident that I would mess it up, and that is some thing I do not wish to do, LOL! Here's to the new Buell(s) being more than what first impressions seem to be. I have not discounted owning a Ulysses. Yet.  The Toad | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Tbs_stunta |
I wonder if Buell will offer the bigger front wheels as an accessory. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Eor |
I don't think there is room for a bigger wheel...not enough clearance with the chin fairing given the bike's current rake angle. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Starter |
I wonder if someone can explain how you double service on the gear oil by adding syncro. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Pbxorcist |
"I wonder if someone can explain how you double service on the gear oil by adding syncro." The service time isnt really due to the new gearbox, but rather an update harley made to the service intervals for bikes running Syn3. The service intervals for Syn3 are now 5k for engine and 10k for primary/trans | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Norcal_blast |
"I will still reserve final judgment when I actually see one in person. Until then, I shall have to avoid my Ducati dealer, as I think the MultiStrada is a nicer bike than this new Buell. Oh, and for those that think the Duc will cost more to maintain, I should like to point out that my Roadking Classic has taught me other wise." Well I've currently got a Multistrada and I've got a Buell and I can assure you that my cost-per-mile on the Ducatis I've owned is much higher. Never had a single problem with either brand, build quality on both is excellent... but with the valve adjustments, cam belt replacement, etc the Duc requires a lot more time and $$ for maintenance. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Blake |
Toad, Zoiks man! You are in need of enlightenment! Your personal views that the Buell ZTL brake/wheel and its significantly reduced unsprung mass is not "nice", is "cheapo", is an "inconvenience", "leaves much to be desired", and that conventional dual disk brakes "stop better" indicates that you really are either horribly misinformed or are simply missing out on understanding the very real and very significant benefits that the innovative Buell ZTL wheel/brake system provides. That you prefer the look of conventional dual disk brakes over the appearance of the ZTL brake with zero regard for significantly improved performance is understandable. That is simply a purely personal/subjective view, and I can appreciate that. But let's be perfectly clear on the issue, the technical advantages/benefits of the Buell ZTL brake/wheel system are very real, and very significant. Braking performance of the ZTL is outstanding and in no way inferior to that of conventional systems. In short, you are terribly mistaken on every single technical point listed above. But hey, if you prefer the look and significantly greater complexity not to mention higher maintenance costs of conventional dual disk brakes/wheels that is fine by me. Just please stick to the facts on the technical issues. You also allege that Erik Buell designs all Buell motorcycles to fit his own personal "needs." That ridiculous allegation is impossible to defend in light of today's release of the new upsized and stretched models, XB12X Ulysses and the X12Ss Lightning Long. And as far as your demand that an $11,495 motorcycle should provide virtually all the features that you personally desire, well, that is about the most foolish expectation I've ever seen espoused in a critique of any motorcycle. But the bike you like best. I can agree with that 101%. I suggest you quit wasting time and go get yourself a new Duc MTS1000. They are fantastic motorcycles. No way are the maintenance costs of ANY Ducati below or even comparable to those of the current Buell 2006 Buell motorcycles. That claim is simply ludicrous, especially with the new for 2006 lifetime belt drive. Maybe you didn't know about that awesome new feature though, but even with the 2005 belt, still no way a Duc is cheaper to maintain than a Buell XB. I have no knowledge re the HD twin cam bikes. Some facts to consider that prove the point...
Pretty sure also that replacing the eight front brake pads of the Ducati will be significantly more expensive than replacing the two multi-segminted pads of the Buell XB models. So besides the cost of the labor to perform all the extra maintenance required for the Ducati, you also have all the extra parts and consumables to buy as well. I know there are other maintenance items like cable lube/adjust and such that are common between the two brands that I did not include, but did I miss anything that would sway the vast preponderance o evidence in the other direction? Please note all the "Never" entries under the Buell column. (Message edited by blake on July 23, 2005) (Message edited by blake on July 23, 2005) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Mozart |
Okay, I take it back. That rear portion that I thought was bodywork is actually part of the two-toned seat. This bike has instantly gone from "eh" to a future purchase. My wife and I have been waiting for a company to do a naked sport-tourer. This is it. Give me those hard cases and off we go. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Bigblock |
Awesome! And the little lady WANTS ME TO GET ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Lake_bueller |
Blake...no offense but I think you missed part of the point in Toad's post. After thinking further about the single front brake on this bike, I can see the concern. It has nothing to do with "stopping power" or true "balance". Instead, it's about getting stuck off road with no front brakes. If the bike had duel brakes, you could at least remove one rotor and limp home if something terrible happened. It still wouldn't be a "deal breaker" for me. I think this bike is everything I was expecting and then some. Now I'll just have to sit and wait for DaveS to get one in Appleton. Due to $$$ constraints, it will probably be closer to a fall of 2006 or spring of 2007 purchase. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Reepicheep |
The "failure scenario" for dual disk versus single rotor was discussed in another thread... Describe a reasonable scenario that could hurt the rotor, without rendering the rim unridable? Look closely at the design before you answer... Now, describe a scenario on a dual disk system that could cause one side to break, but leave the other functional? Again, look hard at the design before you answer. The ZTL ends up more reliable, because it has roughly half the places to break. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Lake_bueller |
Reep...I've seen the design. Think about riding down a rock struin (sp?) trail. You loose a little balance and ooops...you're on your side. Oh..what's that under my front rim....oh, is that a 6" round rock imbedded in the ground....oh, did that rock impact my front rotor...oops, my rotor is bent. I'm not saying that it's likely to happen. But definately plausable. I've already said this WILL be my next bike. It may take 18-24 months (new houses tend to drain the additional cash reserve), but I will own one. Until I had confirmation on the Ulysses, my next new bike was going to be a BMW R1150GS. Now I can continue to keep the "Buell only" garage | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Blake |
Lake, What Bill (Reep) said. Would it be so difficult to "limp home" with a functional rear brake? Pretty sure the Buells all have one. It really is amazing how some can invent imaginary problems/shortcomings; Toadman's commentary provides the perfect example. Not only is his understanding of the Buell ZTL brake/wheel egregiously inaccurate, but he shamelessly even sees fit to equate the Buell ZTL brake to the whimpy single conventional disk brake of a DR650, a dinky 290mm two-piston weakling compared to the Buell ZTL 375mm six piston binders. Equating those two brakes in any manner is simply absurd. Upon close scrutiny, concerns about front brake damage just don't hold water. Like Bill offers, please try to find a way to damage the Buell front brake that won't leave the wheel non-functional. And as for Toadman, he even stated that he does "not ride on dirt." I doubt he's ever ridden any XB. If he had, he would know that the front brake is more than capable of sending the bike flying through the air in a spectacular endo. Toad needs to go buy himself a Ducati Multistrada. A great bike. Pretty sure he's not a Buell enthusiast. Or maybe he's just grumpy and contrary. I dunno. Either way, wrong is wrong, and he is very much wrong in his assessment of the Buell ZTL brake system. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Lake_bueller |
maybe he's just grumpy and contrary...sounds like somebody I know around here | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Cataract2 |
I need a new better paying job. Because, I want that bike!!!! I LIKE IT!!! Dave, I'll be up in Wisconsin come Aug. 8th. Any chance for a test ride!!??!?! Please!!!! | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Blake |
"Think about riding down a rock strewn trail. You loose a little balance and ooops...you're on your side. Oh..what's that under my front rim....oh, is that a 6" round rock embedded in the ground....oh, did that rock impact my front rotor...oops, my rotor is bent." If you scrutinize the design and compare it to conventional front brake you'll see that the Buell ZTL disk is much more resistant to being bent due to a lateral impact. The ZTL disk is anchored directly to a laterally robust wheel rim, where a conventional disk is supported by a laterally weak disk carrier. Not only that, but the Buell ZTL disk is in close proximity to and nestled inside the tire and the edge of the rim thus making a severe unimpeded blow to the disk less likely. So the conventional system is much more likely to suffer damage. But if it does, could we still have the opposite side disk operational? Probably not. At least not without removing the bent disk and finding something to keep the associated caliper from sucking the master cylinder dry as it tries to compress with each pull of the brake lever. Really this concern about such an unlikely imaginary mode of failure is kinda silly don't you agree. But hey, I'll agree with you if you'll let me ride yours next year and put it to a good test. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Blake |
Grumpy and contrary? Whathe?.. Hey! I resemble that remark! ![: ]](http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/clipart/proud.gif) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Xducrider |
I agree 100 percent with Blake! The thought that duel front brake bikes are better than single front brake bikes is WAY OFF! My bother was nearly killed on his Suzuki because one of the two front brake calipers failed and locked up the front wheel! – The mind set that more is better (two is better than one) and therefore ‘safer is’ is not true. This reminds me of the Boeing versus Airbus debates about ‘4 engines are better than 2 engines’ (Airbus quote “4 engines 4 long haul”) – What happened? Turns out that the Boeing 777 (with two engines) has been far more reliable over Airbus aircraft with four engines, why? More parts = Greater opportunity for parts to fail and therefore LOWERS reliability and safely. Fact - The 777, with only two engines, is the ONLY commerce aircraft that has not had a fatality on it. Less is better! The reality is; if a jet engine on a jet or a front brake on a bike fails – you’re done for the day, if not in the hospital (like what almost happened to my bother on a bike with TWO front brakes. BTW – my bothers bike was unable to “limp home” after the front caliper broke on his bike - as all of the brake fluid was gone… …but he did ride home on the back seat of my “single front brake” BUELL SB9SX safely! | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Court |
I'll take the simpleton's approach...each as a construction worker. We have what would appear to be a fairly representative sample of Buell folks here. All of you who have "ridden down a rock strewn....yada, yada, yada....lost your balance and banged up your rotor" please so signify by raising your mouse. Surely, out of a sample of nearly 7,000, we whould be able to gather a couple data points. Seeing none, I hereby unilaterally declare the ZTL system a stroke of gifted genius. Next questionality. Court | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Daves |
Nope, I won't have one by then and I won't be here anyway. I'm going on vacation! Sorry I'm going to miss you. Would've liked to meet you in person | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Wyckedflesh |
30mph lowside in 4-6 inch gravel and not a mark on the rotor to be found Court, so my mouse stays planted on the desk. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Oldroadtoad |
Hi Blake - What is wrong for you is right for me and perhaps the opposite is also true. I have never thought a single disc brake set-up was all that neato. I am a visual little toad, and even tho' Buells ZTL brake is nice, and stops well, I much prefer a pair 'o' 320mm discs with a set of four or six piston calipers up front. Mr. Buell does not take into account my desire(s), ergo he designs for him self. No big deal really. Hey! You are correct in that the single disc on my DR650 is wimpy, especially when compared to the huge one on the Buells. But I equate them from an aesthetic point of view, and my view is that they are equally lacking in visual balance. Again, what is good for me, may not be to you. I have test ridden an XB9S, and at approximately six feet in height, I found it to be a wonderful bike! It was smooth, and power full. I was not at all cramped on the bike. I prefer "small" bikes. But I want what I want. If Buell does not make it, that does not mean Buells are not good bikes, it does mean that they do not make what I want. Maintenance on the Buell and the Ducati, per the two dealers I would use for service, is a virtual wash money-wise. I am not interested in doing the maintenance my self, but if others wish to, good for them. Again, per my local Duc and HD dealers, the maintenance cost is equal. Weird huh? Given the time of having to check a hideous desmo valve set-up, and the Buell has hydraulic adjusters, what are they doing with the bike all that time? Checking stuff. Okay? That takes time, and time is money. Money spent by me, and money earned by trained, qualified mechanics. The dealer is San Diego HD/Buell, and their maintenance costs for varied service intervals are at their shoppe. I tend not to make things up, and I suspect neither do you. The shoppe charges what they charge, and what they charge is comparable to what the Ducati dealer gets for their services on an air-cooled two-valve Ducati. Who would have thought that? I am a motorcycling enthusiast. I just happen to have a thing for huge front brakes. Note please the usage of the pluralised word, "brakes". Not brake. Besides, it is a fact that plenty of bikes set up with conventional double discs stop as well or better than do the Buells with their ZTL brake. This fact in no way negates that you may or may not prefer the ZTL set-up. Really. It is just fine to like what you like. Is it okay for me to like (and buy) what I like? I hope so. I just like the looks of a more conventional dual disc front brake. It looks better to my eyes, and it brakes as well or better in many situations. Besides, I like the looks better. Did I mention I prefer the way dual discs look? A bike costing as much as the Ulysses should be well equipped. I should pretty much want for nothing. Nothing that I NEED. As to what I need, I can tell you that I wanted a Buell with at least a five gallon fuel tank, and a set of double disc brakes up front. What we are offered is less than that. Oh, and I am not all that grumpy today, LOL! In the context of what is going on in the world, not having Buell build what I want is not really all that big a problem. If it turns out that I think the bike is what I want, and I can live with the brake, then I will buy one. I should imagine that the tiny fuel tank on a Buell is nigh-on impossible (unless you have tons of money!) to upgrade. I hope you get what you want. It is your money. The Toad | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Hattori_hanzo |
Put a five gallon tank on a bike making 40mpg...200 miles. Put a 4.4 gallon tank on a bike that gets 50mpg...220 miles. It's range that matters, not fuel capacity. Toad, just don't be so ready to kill something off you haven't see in person or had a chance to ride. You may have had something else in mind, but like Blake says, no manufacturer is going to give you exactly what you want. Get what is the closest to your ideal and ride happy! | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Oldroadtoad |
Wise words indeed Hattori Hanzo! I am just disappointed in a couple of the aspects of this particular bike. I think it is a nice enough bike, but time and my attitude toward what I perceive as short comings will determine whether or not I purchase one. Now then, put a five gallon tank on a bike that gets 50 mpg and ... Thank you. The Toad | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Xlcrguy |
how about four and a half gallons of petrol and excess of 60 mpg (hwy)? sounds good to me... | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Blake |
Toadgrumbler, That was much more thoughtfully put there Toadman. I can understand preference for appearance perfectly well. Just didn't and still don't like your allegations that the Buell ZTL brake is not up to snuff with other conventional offerings. Seriously, how much more stopping power do you need as you go flying over the handlebars? Strange that with your strong preference for things balanced and symmetric that you would prefer the Ducati Multistrada with its single sided swingarm. See, what Ducati really needs to complement that cool albeit mostly for show feature is a left side mounted ZTL front brake. How cool looking would that be? And it would drop a good number of pounds from the bike too. And it would allow the front suspension to perform better too. ZTL, it ain't just for show. How about 65 mph on the highway? Yep, it's valid to compare range. The Buells achieve amazing fuel efficiency. Must be due to their antiquated engine design.   | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Blake |
Oldroadsman, "Mr. Buell does not take into account my desire(s), ergo he designs for him self." Sounds like he and his associates at Buell Motorcycle Company have designed a bike for a LOT of folks, me included. Your take on the bike's design impetus is, well, goofy and a bit frightening in its arrogance. You make it sound like you only see two people in the world, you and Erik Buell. You don't stalk folks who design stuff that you don't like do you?  (Message edited by blake on July 24, 2005) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Oldroadtoad |
Hail and well met, oh Blake! Mr. Buell is doubt less a whole lot smarter than I am, as are most people (including your self!) I have met both in person and on forums such as this one. By the way, I do not think the Buell's engine design is "antiquated". I think it is excellent and more than up to the task. I do not recall ever stating the Buell's engine was olde and inadequate, but if I did, I stand corrected and apologise. Gosh, I own an '04 Roadking Classic, talk about a design that is based on olde (read: proven, enduring, and more than capable) technology. For me, the cheap bicycle wheels that came "standard" on that motorcycle are what needs addressing and replacing, LOL! Oh, and I am considering a MultiStrada 620. I like physically small bikes, and I do not really care all that much for the single-sided-swinging arm of the bigger MultiStradas. Additionally, I know just how strong the front brake on a Buell is having ridden an XB9S, and yes it is up to the task. I just prefer traditional double disc brakes. They perform as well or better than the ZTL and their look makes me happy. Nothing wrong with wanting to be happy with a purchase is there? No? I thought not. Mr. Buell has not taken into account making me happy with regard to the front brake as well as the capacity of the fuel cell on this new bike. No big deal. If his ZTL brake makes others happy enough to buy the bike, then goodie goodie gum drops! If others are thrilled with .7 (U.S.) gallons more in the frame-tank, then by all means, "Huzzah"!! If I suddenly become enamoured of the Ulysses, and buy one all the same, have I suddenly some how "seen the light" of Buell's genius? Nope. I just bought the bike, and will live with its deficiencies (which are less than mine any day, LOL!). As for the "stalk" comment, I shall assume that was meant to be humorous, but the "smilie" was left off. In truth, the new Buell has less warts than this little toad, but it should. It is better looking than I am. Smile! Just because I think the bike has some short comings does not mean you can not like it. It only means that I will scrutinize my purchase all the more closely. It means that I must make certain that I can live with what I (not you) perceive to be problems. It means that you are quite possibly less picky than I. I envy you that last one, LOL! Sorry to have offended you. The Toad }} |
